Why Care? #14: Charlotte Cox and Caroline Nankinga - D&I as a Positive Business Strategy
“I am thoroughly delighted – and feel sad almost when I have a big cheer inside – when on the screen pops up a senior female executive from another organisation. I get a bit giddy. That just shows we’ve come a long way, but how far we’ve got to come.” - Charlotte
In a first for Why Care?, I am joined by two guests Charlotte Cox, President EMEA Pentland Brands and Pentland’s D&I Manager, Caroline Nankinga. Pentland Brands specialises in sportswear, with a number of well-known active sports brands underneath it including Speedo, Berghaus, Canterbury, Mitre, Kickers and Lacoste to just name a few! Charlotte and Caroline join me to discuss a range of topics surrounding the internal D&I of a global company, and the external D&I of designing products and marketing campaigns for a diverse and global audience.
As always, we open the conversation talking about what D&I means to Charlotte and Caroline and how it has impacted their journey so far. Caroline describes her experience of growing up in a multi-cultural city like London but still feeling very isolated as a minority person at school, university and the early stages of her career.
Charlotte shares her own journey as a woman in corporate Britain. When travelling for business, she has often found herself as the only woman in the room. We then discuss how Charlotte and Caroline’s stories, and my own, have a connection of ‘onlyness’ – the alienation of feeling like the only one in the room who has your characteristics.
We discuss what it is like to be a female business leader, and how important it is to use your own experiences as a reference when dealing with others. But equally important is gathering different perspectives, as your experiences may not be universal and may not necessarily lead to inclusion.
Charlotte continues this conversation to talk about privilege and how leaders must learn to recognise their privileges and learn to use them to be an ally and uplift others. She goes on to talk about how inclusive leadership requires effort to understand people, and if you make this effort you and your organisation will reap the benefits of an inclusive workforce.
We then connect D&I at Pentlands to Covid-19 and how people have had more of a reliance on outdoor activities for their own wellbeing. Charlotte connects this to Pentland’s Positive Business Strategy in taking social responsibility for meeting these new consumer needs.
We talk about how brands impact society and how becoming a leading brand means having diverse consumer groups with a variety of characteristics, D&I simply becomes a consumer need.
Caroline expands on how this external D&I work by Pentland Brands is supported by internal D&I in the company, for example this year (2021) they created a new D&I Squad which contains members from across the company to support Pentland’s D&I roadmap. We go on to discuss the importance of creating bespoke D&I training materials for the organisation.
Finally, we close the episode by reflecting on how, despite the negatives of Covid-19, the pandemic has fostered new ways in which we communicate no matter the distance between us, that means global organisations like Pentland Brands now have a greater feeling of unity than ever before.
Links
You can find Charlotte and Caroline over on LinkedIn at: Charlotte Cox | Caroline Nankinga
For more from Pentland Brands, visit their website: https://pentlandbrands.com/ or find them on one of their social medias below.
You can find information on the Prince’s Trust, the charity Charlotte mentioned, on their website here: https://www.princes-trust.org.uk/
To hear Why Care? episodes first, sign up to our newsletter here, and you can find more from us at Avenir via our LinkTree here.
Transcript
Charlotte Cox 00:00
In order to be comfortable in that space leaders have to step into it because it requires effort, right? It's easy to just go and work with the people that think like you, that work the same as you, and actually getting people coming in and giving you the healthy challenge and understanding that you'll get a better output from it. It does require effort, and it requires thoughtfulness to set that up.
Caroline Nankinga 00:22
I've learned to go out and seek different opinions and different perspectives and I've made it my mission to engage people across the business and at different levels and different regions because by that input and understanding the perspective of someone else's shoes, it really goes a long way.
Nadia Nagamootoo 00:41
Hi, my name is Nadia Nagamootoo, Business psychologist, coach, speaker and founder of Avenir consulting, which creates organizational growth and success by inclusion and diversity. We've been discussing the benefits that diversity brings to company's bottom line performance for decades with more and more evidence, but there are so many questions organizations still have about how to achieve it. How do you create a culture where people feel valued for their uniqueness and the qualities they bring? I believe it's crucial to the future success and sustainability every organization that they find the answer to this question, to make sure that each employee is not only supported but also appreciated. With this podcast, I aim to get some of the key challenges to creating inclusive workplaces out in the open and start uncovering the solutions to embracing a culture that cares for everyone. I'm going to be having conversations with some of the most inspiring people in different countries and across industries who are pushing the boundaries on inclusion and diversity in the workplace, from topics such as parenting in the workplace, ethnicity, age, gender, mental health and all things inclusion. I want to create a movement to change society through sharing life experiences, and creating more empathy and connection. Why care? I believe that once we have organizations and societies that accept and value everyone for who they are, we become healthier, happier and better in our roles both inside and outside work.
Hello, and welcome to episode 14 of my Why Care Podcast. My name is Nadia Nagamootoo and I am your host. In this episode, I get lucky with two for one. As I speak all things diversity and inclusion with phenomenal leader Charlotte Cox, President Vermeer of Pentland brands, and Caroline Nankinga their diversity and inclusion manager. Pentland brands has an incredible number of well-known active sports brands under it from Speedo to Berghaus, Cantabrian, Mightier kickers and Lacoste, to name just a few. Charlotte is responsible for the EMEA commercial teams and has over 20 years’ experience across a range of commercial product and marketing and international business development roles. Caroline has a background in organization development and management consulting and leads the business's diversity and inclusion strategy globally. Together, we cover a full range of topics from lived experiences of being the only, taking ownership of power and privilege and how the retail industry can create behavioural shifts through recognizing the needs of people from diverse backgrounds and designing products to meet those needs. With COVID as a very prominent context, the need for people to experience a great outdoors has never been clearer. I was truly inspired by the work of Charlotte, Caroline and Pentland for their social drive to create access for everyone. This episode is packed with insights, tips and advice from an organization putting diversity and inclusion at the heart of what he does enjoy.
Charlotte and Caroline, it is an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. I'm super excited to learn all about you and the work that you're doing at Pentland in the inclusion and diversity space. So thank you so much for joining me.
Caroline Nankinga 03:45
Thanks for having me.
Charlotte Cox 03:46
Sure, nice to be here. Thank you for having us.
Nadia Nagamootoo 03:49
I want to start in so many different places but I would love to learn a little bit more about each of you and your personal journeys in inclusion and diversity. Everyone has a personal journey, whoever steps into the space of working in diversity and inclusion. So Caroline, how did you end up working in this space?
Caroline Nankinga 04:05
Yeah, certainly. So right now, I'm the diversity and inclusion lead at Pentland. But certainly, from a personal perspective, I think there's so many themes that really resonate with me. So being the first-generation Black British-born child, you see so much growing up. If I think about growing up in a multicultural city like London, I was still the minority in the classroom when I was at school. Even when I went to university, I was the only Black face in my university cohort, and then in different parts of my working life as well. And it's amazing how much you get used to being the minority. But what I'd love for the next generation is actually for them to perhaps not experience some of the negative experiences or challenges that I faced. And so, there's definitely a personal pull to D&I from lots of different lenses, and that's really spurred on my passion.
Nadia Nagamootoo 05:01
Your story isn't dissimilar to mine and in that experience of own onliness, of being the only woman but also with the specific diversity characteristics that I have, and I was one of very few at my junior school ethnic minority individuals and was bullied for being different, certainly back in the 80s. I'm showing my age, these sorts of conversations around inclusion and diversity, the sorts of conversation that we have now just weren't happening, and so, there was a lack of awareness, certainly. And my parents, I suppose they just didn't know what to say there was how to deal with it.
Caroline Nankinga 05:34
Yeah. Or they had it almost worse, because they'd gone through it but it's almost a this is what happens. So, I think we've made a lot of progress as a society but I think we're just scratching the surface, and we're just getting braver about talking more broadly about different things.
Nadia Nagamootoo 05:53
Yeah, thank you, Caroline. And Charlotte, then I'm curious around your own journey, your own leadership journey, being a woman in particular, in a very male dominated industry. So, I know you've got an incredibly keen interest, probably an understatement in the area of inclusion, and diversity. You live very much and role model inclusive leadership, what's been your story, as you've worked your way up?
Charlotte Cox 06:16
I think I've always been made to feel incredibly welcome in this industry. And I've probably been very fortunate to have a succession of very strong male bosses who've really supported my career. And they've pushed me at times to take that step outside of my comfort zone, or whether it's been a stretch assignment even when sometimes I didn't believe it myself, or thought I was ready. And I know that sometimes it can be a common trait with females particularly where a male believes that they get offered the opportunity, and of course, they can do it and a female will sometimes more than likely think about the reasons why they can't or they shouldn't. Probably the only challenge that I've really faced has been more culturally, I've travelled extensively, I've been very lucky to travel globally, on business to various different countries and to meet with different businesses, that has presented a challenge at times where females aren't generally the most senior person in the room, that onliness. I was the only female in the room on many occasions, particularly the last 10 years. So, I guess that's the only point of reference I have to do with the onliness piece that you guys were just talking about. And that's really required me to rise above what I would call noise of that in the room. So that's whether I'm being ignored or sadly patronized. It has required me to dig quite deep and remember, I was at the table because I deserve to be there like everybody else. I'm definitely starting to see a shift in that, in terms of the organizations I'm speaking to internally within the UK, I'm thoroughly delighted and feel sad when we almost have a big cheer inside and on the screen pops up a senior female from another organization, I get kind of giddy, but that just shows that we've come a long way and how far we've got to come.
Nadia Nagamootoo 07:56
Yeah, still in the minority, even if there's one other in being the only, and particularly in that senior level context, where actually, I don't know, is there a pressure in terms of demonstrating credibility or that you have legitimacy around that table? Is there something that you've had to do or is there something that you've developed in your leadership in order to compensate or ensure that your voice is heard?
Charlotte Cox 08:21
No, honestly, I just think it comes from making sure that you have the inner confidence and that you believe in yourself, and that takes time to build out, it doesn't happen overnight. So no, I don't think there's ever been any pressure for me to conform or start to mirror other people's behaviour just because I was around a table. I do think it comes from having a strong sense of who you are, and being really authentic to that.
Nadia Nagamootoo 08:45
Thank you. I'm curious then about how your experiences, how that personal journey has really influenced how you do your jobs?
Caroline Nankinga 08:53
Probably from my perspective, I'm acutely aware that when it comes to certain themes, such as race or such as gender, I can very much lean on my own personal experiences as a reference point. But then if I think about other themes, particularly if you then layer on intersectionality, for example, it's not the case. And so, in terms of the work that I do, I've learned to go out and seek different opinions and different perspectives. And I've made it my mission to engage people across the business and at different levels as well and different regions because it's by that input and understanding the perspective in someone else's shoes, it really goes a long way. And I'm also aware of the danger of alienating certain people if you only hear a particular perspective as well. That's really important in my role, and I may wear the job title or the badge that says D&I lead, but I do my work through others. So, I feel this role is very much a facilitative role. It's not on the shoulders of one person. It's actually teamwork in the true sense of the word say, yeah, it's really important to me that whatever I do, it's understanding and listening to a broad range of perspectives.
Nadia Nagamootoo 10:10
Yeah, thank you. And Charlotte?
Charlotte Cox 10:12
I think it's fair to say personally, I'm really aware that compared to others, my life isn't that stressful. So, I feel very fortunate that I can be myself, with very little thought, I consider myself to have a lot of privileges. And therefore, I guess the challenge becomes for me is how do I use that everyday privilege to give others what they need and be the best that I can possibly be at a moment in time, or whether that's now or someone for the future, in my day-to-day job. So I guess just breaking that down it means how do I use what I consider quite an ordinary nature of who I am, to be that ally, to speak up, to influence or act on the behalf of somebody else and use that to an extraordinary power by kind of flip it in something, then that privilege to use it as a source of, of extraordinary power and that could manifest itself in giving somebody some coaching, some perspective, opportunity, support, experience, listening, or acting. So, for example, I wanted to really start learning what people who lack ordinary privilege encounter in terms of challenges at work or in their communities, because in order for me to, I consider that to be a personal purpose, how do I do all of those things? How do I act? How do I speak up, if I don't even understand some of the challenges that people face that I don't have. So, one of the things I did last year was through the pandemic, I did a bit of work for the first time with the Prince's Trust. and that provided me to get a much greater understanding of some of those challenges. So, I was mentoring young people to get into the NHS, and sometimes their very first job from an entirely different background to me and it really made it incredibly thoughtful for me, to see around some of those challenges and some conversations I will never forget. I think that's the first thing. And then the second area, I think is just, I feel really grateful that I have had strong people around me in my career who've been cheerleaders, who’ve been incredibly supportive and part of the great talent management programme. And I think because I have seen and felt the benefit of that, there is a piece of me that enjoys the give back of that. And suddenly I'm in that seat and I have the opportunity to help other people. I particularly love doing that at the start of their career journey. Hence the reason I did the work with Prince's Trust, getting people into work, getting them interview ready, getting their CVs ready. And I love giving people stretching roles. And so, they get to broaden that experience and skill set and push them out of their comfort zone, build confidence, because I know that that has been hugely important to me is building a toolkit. So, when you are in those moments where you could have a wobble, you've got that in your armory, to that example I spoke to earlier which builds your confidence, and I find that one of the most rewarding things that I do is being a leader.
Nadia Nagamootoo 12:54
I've personally found what you've just said, quite inspiring because of the active nature in how you lead in an inclusive way. So, for me, when I'm working, facilitating workshops around inclusive leadership, and one of the things that I massively encourage is that open mindedness, that curiosity, that maybe the world the way that you see the world isn't the way that it necessarily is for other people. I'm not saying that your reality is wrong, but simply that other people have different realities. And I love that active approach that you've taken around with the Prince's Trust work and other ways and actually challenging yourself to listen to learn to recognize that actually, other people's lived experiences are not the same as yours but using that power and privilege that you have in your space to support and to help them develop and grow.
Charlotte Cox 13:47
Yeah, I think the other interesting part for me is it wasn't always that way with me. I think, in the first part of my career, I didn't really understand what the benefit of working with a diverse group of people was. And I can think of one specific example where a wonderful lady who, sadly, no longer with us, left a really big mark on me very early in my career. And she’s very different to me culturally, and came with real challenge from personality perspective, entirely on the other spectrum to me, and I remember we were working on this thing project together and I kept thinking, why is she asking me this, why is she asking me all these questions? Let me get on with it. I just, I know what I'm doing. Just let me get on with it. I find it so annoying. And instinctively, I used to gravitate towards people that were like me. But honestly, that project I worked with her on, once I tried to sort of understand what the value that different perspective brought and the value of her asking some absolutely amazing questions. It helped us get to a far better output. So, I think the other thing is as you progress in your career, and as leaders, we know we often don't have all the right answers and we just need to be honest about that and really own it and accept that we need different perspectives of others to provide a solution that's far better than we could have probably come up with ourselves and it will be better, it'd be far more rounded. And I do think though, that in order to be comfortable in that space, leaders have to step into it, because it requires effort. It's easy to just go and work with the people that think like you, that work same as you, and actually getting people coming in and giving you the healthy challenge and understanding that you'll get a better output from it. It does require effort, and it requires thoughtfulness to set that up.
Nadia Nagamootoo 15:27
Yeah, for sure. Because it's interesting, what you just named there, which is that actually, it would be easier and actually, probably more, it could feel inclusive if there was less diversity of thought, because everyone just thinks the same, and we get along, and it works really well. So, inclusion can happen without diversity. And I speak about that quite often in my workshops as well. So, I'm interested around some of the challenges in your specific industry in this space, then. So Caroline, I think the active sport and lifestyle industry is the official kind of industry title.
Now, I'm assuming it's quite male dominated but that's an assumption from a sport perspective, maybe you can shed more light on some of the key diversity inclusion related challenges.
Caroline Nankinga 16:13
Yes, you're right. In certain places, that is the case, that it's particularly male dominated. I think, we have such a broad range of brands that also mean we have a diverse range of consumers as well but with that breadth in different touchpoints, and different consumers across our brands, we definitely noticed there are D&I challenges in our industry. The first one that springs to mind, if I think about Rugby, one of our brands Canterbury in that space, definitely I would say that there is work to be done to increase the amount of female representation in the sport, there's more work to make it more inclusive. And again, staying in Rugby, there's more work to be done to support more inclusivity of the LGBT community as well. And so, it's great to see all brands working towards supporting or tackling some of those D&I challenges as well. Particularly if I think about Rugby, we do understand that there's probably about 25% of the population at play that are female. And so, our brand teams are looking at different ways to bring out new different products and product ranges to encourage more females into the sport, and the same with our partnerships as well. One of our partnerships is with the Kings Cross tailors, and they were the first club LGBT club in the sport. So, our brands are definitely working to make sure that what we do brings more inclusion and doesn't just talk to a particular subset of their consumers, and that runs through other things. So, if I think about speedo, as well, and swim, there's more work to be done to ensure that the BAME community getting into the water, whether that's thinking about hair products, or product ranges, thinking about more modesty, product ranges, but there's definitely more work to be done to encourage more people into the water. Hence having different partnerships with the way that we've worked as well as to work different partners. So, we've got a partnership with a Black Swimming Association, which is really helping us learn and understand what we can do through our brands to encourage more inclusion as well.
Nadia Nagamootoo 18:16
You're spot on there, isn't it, you can't be expected to know everything about different segments or different populations who have different diversity characteristics, that will be impossible. So, this is a learning journey for the organization to gather that understanding and that intelligence, so that actually you can then create the products and market it in a way that's going to appeal. Is that how it works?
Caroline Nankinga 18:40
Exactly. And I think also, we are very much in terms of what's going on in the world today, we're seeing just how much of a role that we can play in supporting and tackling some of those challenges. So, think about the dreaded COVID and what we've all been through globally, we've seen so much benefit of being outdoors in this time and the benefits that are not just physical well-being but mental well-being. And it's really important to us to support more and more consumers enjoy the great outdoors. So definitely through listening to our consumers, our brands, brands like our Berghaus brand are doing much more to encourage people to get out there and enjoy that. It is about listening to different perspectives, understanding what we can do and within our brands to support that.
Nadia Nagamootoo 19:31
So, as you're talking about that, I can see how Pentland can work, and how each brand within can work to better understand the consumers, better understand actually where the need might be. But what I'm curious about then this is where the internal diversity characteristics compared to the external market and the consumers you're aiming for.
Charlotte Cox 19:49
Yeah. So, if we pull two things apart, because I think it's important just to think about what does it mean externally, how do consumers interact with our brands? And then how does that translate internally. If I cover the external piece, so our brands have really unique, they're all heritage brands, right? So, they're all very authentic heritage brands, many of them sort of number one in their category. So, I guess it's extremely important from a brand perspective, and to consumers that whatever we do within the D&I space, it has to feel authentic and true, it is linked to their heritage. Otherwise, it just feels like it's disingenuous, or it's forced, and I think that is super important because the way that consumers connect with our business is through our brands. That's the vehicle it's not about Pentland front and center, it is our brands that are the heartbeat of business and that's what matters to consumers. So, I think we're really clear that, therefore, the brand has a role to play within this space, but it needs to be ownable, it needs to be authentic to them. So, if you take Speedo, as an example, Speedo has this ambition to be number one Swim brand in the world, and that means a commitment to a load of normal metrics that you would expect to see. So whether that's a medal count at the Olympics, or sustainability, or number one for consumer choice, but I think in that example, when you are sat, and you have the aspiration to be number one, stay number one, you then have a commitment back to the breath of those consumers that you represent to say, what are you doing to be number one in a D&I space, and especially around D&I inclusion in the swimming category. So, this then becomes when you have that number one position, this becomes a real non-negotiable for your consumer groups and it becomes actually a really deep-rooted consumer needs. It's not a trend. It's like a fundamental hygiene factor for our consumers, as regards to Speedo. And if you go back to the authenticity that would sit behind that, it would make sense because Speedo, was founded by a pioneer who challenged the status quo from day one, unafraid of controversy history of firsts. And so based on that core belief of the brand, we would absolutely say it's our right, and it's our role to behave as a number one and make room for everyone to enjoy the water. Take for example, women feeling body conscious, how do we help, it's the closest thing to being naked technically, and it's a real barrier to getting women into the water and feeling confident. So, we have got an enormous amount of work to do in that space. That's just one dynamic. And Caroline spoke to the underrepresented group of Black women who not don't necessarily want to get in the water, or have all of the tools to do so, whether that's the right swim cap to protect their Afro hair, and all of these things, they really matter to our consumers, and therefore they matter to us.
Nadia Nagamootoo 22:39
Yeah, it's fascinating hearing you speak because it wouldn't necessarily occur to me the complexity of how to remain genuine and authentic as a brand, to supporting a potential need. So it could be that you could encourage through simply something that you do, a product that you put out, encourage more people into the water, in particular, people with certain diversity characteristics. And sometimes it's almost like because that product doesn't exist right now, those people maybe have less interest. So actually, you're influencing how people live their life, and actually the appeal of a particular sport, in terms of actually, oh, that's available now, actually, why not? Why shouldn't I do this?
Charlotte Cox 23:24
And as a brand, you're always looking to think about ways that you can drive behaviour change, like long term, and it can be incredibly rewarding when you develop that kind of deep-rooted consumer led proposition that allows you to make a real shift and behaviour change. So those are the bits we're exploring. And when you have that ambition, and that responsibility to the category, it becomes, like I said, non-negotiable. Wait, we have to do it.
Nadia Nagamootoo 23:47
Yeah. I love that. So Caroline, you wanted to speak to the internal piece with regard to that question?
Caroline Nankinga 23:54
Yeah. Let me just add to what Charlotte was saying. I would say the connection piece is that through our people, so yes, our brands had their individual focuses in terms of D&I and how that resonates with their brand heritage and ensuring that it's authentic but then the way that it connects to the broader D&I roadmap is definitely through our people. So, for example, I'm really excited this year, we've created a new diversity and inclusion squad, a D&I squad, and it's made up of colleagues across the business, different levels of the business, different regions, including members of our brand teams as well and they come together to support our D&I roadmap and help execute delivery. And it's been amazing to see what they can achieve and the connection comes through. If I give an example apart from the most recent International Women's Day, internally there was very much a focus on women's achievements across the business. So, we had an exec team panel consisting of Charlotte and some of the other female members of the exec team talking about achievements across Pentland and then to complement that as well, the brand teams also brought in some of the influences, some of the ambassadors that we work with. So for example, that has bought in Black girls hike. And it's a way to help bring to life what we're doing internally as well and connecting with our consumers, understanding a bit more about the challenges. And so, there's very much an effort to make sure that what we're doing internally does connect with what we are doing through our brands as well. And it's very much through our people in that D&I squad to help make that happen.
Nadia Nagamootoo 25:34
So, D&I squad, similar to what other people might call it, a committee, right.
Caroline Nankinga 25:39
So through my support, they get involved in a wide variety of things. So, it is similar to a committee but I would say it's pretty much hands on, what we're trying to do is leverage the passion that we have from our colleagues to support in any way that they want to. So, without feeling like times two of your day job and trying to draw upon their passion in lots of different ways. And we don't just have the diversity and inclusion squad, we have the charities one, a sustainability one, all with the aim of positive business. So, it's been great to see just how much momentum we've made on passion.
People care about taking action. So it's been great, particularly for a small, dedicated team that I sit in with the label or job titles, we've suddenly got an army of champions supporting us.
Nadia Nagamootoo 26:29
You mentioned that positive business strategy, would you be able to explain a little bit more, what's the purpose of it, why create it?
Charlotte Cox 26:38
So, the story of how our positive business strategy came about, it's actually a really nice one, because it's very much linked to our fourth generation of family who are now in the business working with our new CEO, and they were looking out to 2032 and beyond. And it's an important milestone for Penland brands. We're celebrating our 100 years, so centenary of Pentland. And as they were looking out to that horizon that 10 plus years, and what that could look and feel like, positive business very much stood out as a key pillar. In fact, it's deliberately the first pillar, as you look left to right on our strategy in the way that we internally communicate that, to put it sort of front and centre. And that's because consumers tell us that positive businesses, is key to them, it's important to them, it's a deep-rooted value, and that they really value it and therefore, if it's valued from our consumers, many of our employees are also consumers of our brands, so therefore, it matters to our business. So, we're really committed to being a truly consumer centric organization and we put that at the heart of our business and the way we think, and what we do needs to be in service of that, and delighting and surprising consumers. And that's the same internally, we want everyone to feel included, and be able to speak up, to create better adaptability, collaborate and ultimately bring great results for the organization and for themselves, specifically the D&I part of the positive business strategy. I think it'd be useful for Caroline to talk about that because she has been quite instrumental in developing that.
Caroline Nankinga 28:11
I can honestly say it's been a godsend. Having so many passionate people come forward to support diversity and inclusion. So this year alone, for example, the squad made up of colleagues across the business have created bespoke learning and D&I learning, whether that's understanding more about neurodiversity, understanding more about supporting the LGBT community, race inclusion, inclusive leadership. There's been a range of different topics that we have together collaborated on, talked about, we have different shared stories that we could bring together to look at what do we want going forward as a business? How do we want to demonstrate inclusive leadership? How do we want to support race inclusion? What do we need to be mindful of within the business working together as colleagues, but also what can our brands do, and it's quite easy when it comes to learning, it is quite easy to pick off the shelf content, that it's been made meaningful and brought to life by the colleagues that have taken part in producing it.
Nadia Nagamootoo 29:14
How do you make it relevant so that individuals within Pentland within each brand, where they kind of go okay, I get how I can apply this learning in my day to day.
Charlotte Cox 29:23
Firstly, if I take race inclusion, for example, because 2020 saw a lot of discussion through the Black Lives Matter movement, COVID, all of what was going on around us prompted more people to want to discuss it but there was also some sensitivity as well. So, some people felt nervous about asking particular questions. And I think one of the biggest things we've learned this year is silence doesn't move us forward and it doesn't help us learn and understand. And so, in this example, having that dialogue in a safe space with different colleagues across the business talking about questions they might not have asked before, enabled us to then create content that we felt was really relevant going forward for all colleagues, but also helpful for our brands because we touched on things such as colourism, we touched on developing the inclusive mindset. These are all things that are relevant today, whatever part of the business you're in, and it's only through that shared perspective and shared stories that we learn.
Nadia Nagamootoo 30:26
That's amazing. How has that been received? How do you make sure that people are taking up that offer of learning? Because you can't make people do it or have you made it compulsory?
Caroline Nankinga 30:36
There are certain areas that we are making compulsory. So, for example, part of our wider diversity and inclusion board market is about how do we make sure we increase the diverse representation in our business, with that comes a module around recruiting exclusively, that for us is important.
And so, we're going to make that mandatory for all of our hiring managers. But then to be honest, a lot of it has come through pure intrigue. So going back to the race inclusion module, people want to talk about it, but they want to talk about it and feel safe to and want to understand more, about what can I do, and so the momentum has built very naturally, then as we go forward, we'll think of ways that we can bolt it into other areas, too.
Nadia Nagamootoo 31:20
What springs to mind, for me, then is that you're a global organization, and you have these different brands underneath you, that have, particularly from what you were just speaking about, from a D&I perspective, each having slightly different focuses on how they can have impact influence in their consumer groups. So, then what intrigues me is, if you've got many leaders across the world operating, how do you create a consistent inclusive leadership practice?
Charlotte Cox 31:51
So, one of the things we do, it comes through strongly in terms of measuring our commitment, to, measuring employee engagement. So, it's a question that we ask on all of our global engagement surveys, and we do them twice a year, then we also do regular post checks, temperature checks, so in between, and it's about taking the output from that, and then developing an action plan that comes off the back of it. So, each leader is held to account on their scores, but then ultimately, it becomes less about the score and more about the activity and the action, the commitment that you're going to make as a leader and your team. So invariably, what happens is the action plan is built within the team, because ultimately, it's about what the team are thinking and feeling in terms of that engagement with the organization and the way that we show up. So, we break down the data, have a look at what the employees are telling us at different levels of leadership, and then each leader is accountable and that goes on their personal development plan, as well. So, they are held to account on making sure that we're delivering against that engagement, and commitment to employees. And I think the other thing we've had to do, particularly for the pandemic is work really hard to keep connections with each of our teams, it's been a great learning opportunity. One of the biggest things it's taught our organization and definitely me is that old adage of everyone needs to be in the room together. Now, you don't always have to be in the room to be in the known. And I think for being a global organization, some of the digital solutions that we've now got in place enables us to actually behave like a global organization, and make the security regions of the world feel far more included because we're quite a UK centric business. And in this last 18 months has really enabled us to start to integrate more and connect more with our colleagues in the other two regions.
Nadia Nagamootoo 33:35
Amazing, isn't it, how COVID has brought what seemed like distant colleagues that actually you didn't have much connection with so much closer and more able just to connect, meet, talk, understand and learn from each other?
Charlotte Cox 33:49
Yeah, absolutely. And then we also want to have more inclusive conversations. So, one of the other things we did during the height of the pandemic in sort of UK and EMEA, we decided that it was a really good idea to start to host some ‘Let's Talk’ sessions with all our colleagues across the world. So, what that meant is each one of our leaders that reports to an exec member is and it's responsible for either a function or a brand or a sales region or a sales channel is asked to do a ‘Let's Talk’ session for the whole organization. And we run it in the morning so that our Asia colleagues can join and then in the evening so that our Americas colleagues can join, and invariably what that is to be like a 15 to 20-minute presentation on their area, what's happening, what are some of the challenges, what are some of the opportunities, and then a really good Q&A session at the back of it, and that was really well received and we've continued to do that. We've got a programme coming up for the second half of the year as well. So, the pandemic forced us to think differently and it's great that we take those learnings, and we don't lose them. Another example I can think of is very recently about only a month ago, our new CMO found a really brilliant way of connecting her own brand and product team. So, all the brands were putting into her, how do they keep the conversations alive, especially remotely, globally, in terms of what's going on in the brands? What are they working on, what's coming up? So, she launched like, say about a month ago this Friday at five. So today, we will all get something jump into our inbox, which is basically five minutes, and it's the brand teams or product teams, or the creative agency talking about what they've been working on this week. And they will get to speak about it, they will show what's on their screen, some of them are designing, it's just a really nice way for everyone to feel connected about what the brand or product teams are working on, it's a great opportunity to reflect over a cup of tea on a Friday, it takes five minutes.
Nadia Nagamootoo 35:39
What I love about that is so easy to think what a horrendous year and a half we've all had, but it shows actually how adaptable we are as humans, and actually how there are some positive changes that have come about as a result of it, and that connectedness now as an organization. So, what's next, what's on the horizon very quickly, from an inclusion diversity perspective, with COVID as a backdrop, there's obviously things you're going to continue doing, is there anything that you really want to achieve at Pentland brands over the next few years in the D&I space?
Charlotte Cox 36:10
So, when I think about obviously, what's happened during the sort of COVID context, there's been more people working at home, people thinking differently about how and when they've worked. People have discovered sort of the level of the great outdoors and the benefits well-being, far more consumers, people are shopping online more than ever before and they want great choice. They weren't great customization at greater speed, I think the importance of planet. So, we're part of a climate emergency. So, a lot of our work in the positive business space was the D&I piece, which leans into taking action for people, we also need to be taking action for the planet as well, to make sure we'd be really clear and transparent with our commitments in that space, and then the importance of community and being inclusive and kind. So, whether that's respecting or supporting our people, whether it's about making products in less developed markets, or whether that's using our brands, and the role that we play in bringing people together to create communities, that's really important for us. And we've just launched our new purpose and ambition, we've just launched that to the organization internally, and it's about pioneering brands that make life better. So, I'm really excited by that, because it's about being there in the moments that matter to our consumers and our employees. So, from a strategic point of view, we are really supporting that shift. And the fact that we've got sort of a braver bolder purpose statements like that behind the organization really shows that we're serious about this, whether that's making product that appeals to a broader range of consumers that are now more active, not just catering for performance athletes, but plus sized consumers or tailored experiences that people can connect with. It's not just about going in store, but online having a conversation, I guess that's how we remain really relevant, how we learn how we adapt, and how we ultimately continue to grow, as we think about what the next 100 years of Pentland brands looks like.
Caroline Nankinga 38:05
That's mirrored internally with what we're doing with our colleagues as well. So, we know there's lots of work to do. But we've made such progress that we're continuing those more and more employee networks that are coming about. We're about to launch our first new LGBTQ plus network for Black colleagues and well-being network. There's lots more that we want to do internally to bring together different voices, different perspectives. So that's definitely on the agenda and we've started that already. But then it's also looking at what can we do more around diversity as well. So how do we bring more difference into our business? What do we currently look like as a business? And what are the key priorities as well? So, it very much mirrors what Charlotte has been saying from a broader external view with our brands, too.
Nadia Nagamootoo 38:53
Thank you so much, both of you, I could carry on talking for ages, that complexity of the landscape that you're working in with the external and how it meets the internal, it's fascinating. So, for people who are interested in anything you've said, might want to get a hold of you. Are you available on any social channels?
Caroline Nankinga 39:11
Yeah, they will, on LinkedIn, happy to hear from people. It's great, always great to meet new people.
Charlotte Cox 39:15
Likewise.
Nadia Nagamootoo 39:17
The links to everything that Caroline Charlotte have spoken about today and also their LinkedIn profiles will be on the usual show notes page of the Avenir consulting services.com website under podcast. So Caroline, and Charlotte, thank you so much for sharing for being so open about everything that Pentland brands are doing. I really appreciate your time.
Charlotte Cox 39:40
Our pleasure.
Caroline Nankinga 39:42
And thank you for having us.
Nadia Nagamootoo 39:42
Thank you. That concludes episode 14 of the Why Care Podcast, Charlotte is an absolute role model of what it means to be an inclusive leader. She shares and distribute her power to others and seeks opportunity to listen and learn to different viewpoints and challenge her thinking. Caroline is passionate about her work and inserts so much energy into facilitating the organization to do bigger and better things in the D&I space, their collective drive to develop brands that can get more people enjoying active sport and benefiting both physically and mentally is inspiring. Do let Charlotte, Caroline and I know what you thought of today's show. You can find me on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram with the handle at Nadia Nagamootoo and at Avenir consulting services. As always, I really appreciate your support of this podcast or leaving a review on whatever platform you're listening and spreading the word by sharing it with your friends and family. Huge thanks to Mauro Kenji, for editing this podcast and Jon Rice for supporting the show notes and getting it out there on social media.
