Why Care? Special Episode: Smarter in Seconds with Blair Imani
“It's about showing up when somebody needs help - and that kind of baseline expectation throughout my childhood, and of course adulthood, made me very preoccupied with how we can correct the unfairness in the world. I wanted to show other people that it doesn't have to be the way that it is, because I think a lot of people just grew up differently to me, feeling like they were put into boxes, feeling like they did have to settle for whatever life threw at them, and my parents at every juncture were like, well that's messed up, let's fix it, and then would proceed to fix it.”
In this special episode of Why Care?, host Nadia Nagamootoo sits down with Blair Imani, historian, educator, and author of Read This to Get Smarter. Known for her viral Smarter in Seconds series, Blair breaks down complex topics in an accessible and engaging way. In this conversation, Blair shares her journey as an advocate, the role of education in driving change, and the importance of challenging misinformation. She also discusses her experiences in activism, the impact of storytelling on social justice, and how we can all contribute to making the world more inclusive.
Key Takeaways
Education is a powerful tool for dismantling bias and promoting social justice.
Smarter in Seconds demonstrates how breaking down complex topics can make learning accessible to all.
Understanding history and systemic injustices is essential to creating meaningful change.
Allyship requires more than just words—it demands action and accountability.
True allyship involves continuous learning, amplifying marginalized voices, and taking action to support communities.
Challenging misinformation and recognizing privilege are crucial steps toward fostering an inclusive society.
Highlights
Blair’s Journey to Activism – From being arrested during a protest to becoming a globally recognized educator, Blair shares the pivotal moments that shaped her career.
Making Complex Topics Accessible – Blair explains the philosophy behind Smarter in Seconds and why bite-sized education is essential in today’s digital world.
Challenging Myths and Misinformation – Blair discusses how she debunks historical and cultural misconceptions, such as the real origins of Thanksgiving.
The Power of Identity and Intersectionality – Blair reflects on how race, gender, and faith have shaped her advocacy and storytelling.
What It Means to be an Ally – Blair shares practical ways to support marginalized communities beyond performative allyship.
Education as a Tool for Change – Blair highlights how knowledge can be a powerful driver for equity and justice in both social and political spaces.
Bringing Queer Representation to Children’s Books – Robin shares her experience of writing LGBTQ+ characters, the challenges she faced, and the positive impact of queer representation in children’s literature.
Links
Blair’s Website: BlairImani.com
Blair’s Book: Read This to Get Smarter
Avenir Consulting: https://linktr.ee/avenirconsultingservices
Transcript
Nadia Nagamootoo 00:06
Hello and welcome to a very special y care episode today. I'm joined by the fabulous I'm very excited about this, Blair Imani, and I have to say, Blair's bio is nothing short of than impressive, powerful, inspiring. On the 10th of July, 2016 following the shooting of Alton Sterling, Blair took part in a protest in Louisiana and was arrested. Her arrest didn't stop her, and she came back stronger in asserting her views against violence and brutality. Blair is a historian, advocate, and LA Times, Best Selling Author of read this to get smarter. She's a creator of the viral digital series, smarter in seconds. The New York Times has praised her ability as progressive lessons with vibrant visual and a perky, quirky delivery. AV, to say, I absolutely love all of your reels. Blair, thank you so much. Her scholarship spans intersectionality, gender studies, race and racism, sociology and United States history. She's also written two other books making our way home in 2020 and modern history in 2018 she's had the opportunity to present at renowned universities, companies as well. So Sephora, meta, Adobe gates ventures, and she's collaborated and interviewed with some phenomenal people in a variety of fields, like Jane Fonda, Gloria Steinem, and Dr Kimberly Crenshaw, who, personally, I'm like, wow, and that's how I feel talking to you today. Blair, so Wow. Thank you so much for joining me on Why Care?.
Blair Imani 02:02
Thank you so much for having me. This has been so incredible. I mean, to our listeners, Nadia is so incredible. And I feel like it's, I don't know, it's just so beautiful when you're like, imagine like, how difficult it would have been to, like, arrange something like this. Like, totally like, five years ago, 10 years ago. And it's just amazing how interconnected we are and how many opportunities we have to learn, you know, cross-collaborative across disciplines, across fields, and also across oceans.So I'm really just thrilled. Well, thank
Nadia Nagamootoo 02:31
you for flying across the ocean to join me in London. I genuinely feel honored and privileged to be set here. I'm just a little bit of a girl man, so I'm just going to try and absorb that and enjoy spending some time with you. Because I'm, I mean, it's just amazing what you have achieved in your life, in your career, to date. And you know, I suppose me being curious about how your upbringing, your life as a child, like how, how has that shaped your decisions and where you are right now, like all that you've done and where you find yourself in life at the moment,
Blair Imani 03:13
I truly believe that when it comes to our childhood upbringings, the things that we were like, made fun of for or called out for, is our superpower, because it's the thing that you did inherently growing up that was natural to who you are, in your personality, that made you stand out against society. And oftentimes it's what other kids decided to interpersonally try to, you know, get out of you. It's like that tall poppy syndrome that they, you know, talk about in Australia, like you're the one who stood out. So we're gonna try to, like, you know, knock you off. And for me, it was always fun specs. It was always like, I would go to the library because I have asthma. It was quite bad when I was young. And so instead of doing like PE, like everyone else, did physical education. So basically I would have to go to the library during PE, which is also so interesting, because sometimes they have me walk laps with the Muslim students who are like, fasting for Ramadan. And I wasn't the only one who was just like, not being able to do PE. And I would go to the library, and I would be like, Okay, well, what I'll do is I heard, so, you know, I heard Ryan talking about how much he loves World of Warcraft. Well, I'll do a deep dive into World of Warcraft, and then when I see him next, I'll just talk to him about World of Warcraft, which, instead, what I was doing is something in ADHD and like, just being no divergent, called info dumping, where I'd be, like, you mentioned this once. Here's everything about it. So as you might expect, superpower actually, I say so now, especially in the field of work that I do, creating smarter in seconds, but at the time, it was just so out of the box. It was so unexpected, and so it wasn't as, I don't think, appreciated as it is now, because it was just so out of context, like, you know, at the time where their kids were students, it was like, why are you learning more outside of the time where we're meant to be learning? Sure, and it took me a while to kind of, like, find my people and my community. My dad would always say that be a nerd, be interested in what you want to do. And like, he would always see like, the folks who were, like the jocks and whatever in school, like not doing as well as he was later in life. And he'd always told me that story. My mom would. Read me all of these different, like, biographies of different celebrities who got made fun of, and I was just always really encouraged to not deviate and not try to, like, change my personality or who I was. And it's really served me well in the end, because I think a lot of folks at this stage in life are having to relearn who they were before, and I've just kind of had to sit through about 15 years, maybe 20 of not fitting in, and it's been great so far ever since. And I think another huge aspect of my upbringing was the social justice component. My father works with developmentally disabled adults, making sure that there is dignity in long term care, that there is dignity in how we talk about disability and how we, you know, care for people and accommodate people. I didn't learn until I got arrested, actually, when I called my dad from East Baton Rouge Parish prison that he was a black panther, and that kind of Marxist philosophy really shines through in the way that he operates. And my mom studied to be a social worker, and she's also very much like she sees an injustice, she's going to address it. And if there's somebody who needs help, she's going to help them. When I was growing up, there would be, you know, there was one woman whose husband was, you know, physically abusing her. And my mom kind of caught wind of that, and when he went on a business trip, we went over to her house, moved her out, and she moved in with us until she was able to get on her own feet. And I didn't realize until much later in my life how extraordinary that is, because I think it's people like that that fill the gaps, who stand in the gaps, who are able to help somebody kind of across, and even though this person didn't end up being like a long term friend of my mom's like, I don't think they even talk anymore. It's not about that. It's about showing up when somebody needs help. And that kind of just based on expectation throughout my childhood, and of course, adulthood made me very preoccupied with how we can correct the unfairness in the world and showing other people that it doesn't have to be the way that it is. Because I think a lot of people just grew up differently to me, feeling like they were put into boxes, feeling like they did have to settle for whatever life threw at them. And my parents, at every juncture, were like, well, that's messed up. Let's fix it, and then would proceed to fix that.
Nadia Nagamootoo 07:02
What amazing role models as parents to have, you know, and that story about your mum knowing someone who needed help and just kind of going well, we've got space in our house. Let's just bring her in to keep her safe until, I mean, that's amazing. Not everyone would do that, right? But imagine a world where everyone did, everyone did, I mean,
Blair Imani 07:26
Imagine a world where it wasn't an issue to begin with, right? But until we get there, I think that it's like, it's just so powerful, and I think it's so important to tell stories like that as well. I don't know if I've really talked about that before, but I think that was such like, a formative experience, because so many people are taught, oh, mind your business. It's none of your business. And you know, my mom is like, if it's unjust, it's my business. And that's like, the way that I describe myself as well. And I would describe my mom in the most loving way as incredibly nosy but incredibly helpful.
Nadia Nagamootoo 07:53
Yes, yes. But you know, and I love that, you know, if it's unjust, you know, if it's unjust, than it is. It's everyone's business, right? Because we can't, you know, we walk past it with that means colluding with it, we accept it, whatever, whatever injustice it is we walk past we accept.
Blair Imani 08:14
And I think it's like, you know, people will say things on online slogans, silence is violence. You know, an amazing statement that came from act up during the HIV AIDS crisis, and how Ronald Reagan refused to even say the words AIDS or HIV. But I think that it's gotten so far away from its meaning in many cases, because the silence is violence. Isn't like, Oh, you've posted this slogan, and now we've solved this problem over you know, you know, hundreds of miles away, 1000s of miles away, or kilometers, since we were in the UK. But it's really like, so yesterday I was out at, you know, at a pub with my friend Gabriel, and we saw this woman in the sky, and they were like, you know, having some banter. She was laughing, he was laughing, but he also had his, like, hand around her neck. And so we both just kind of like, paused, looked see where the situation went, and then it seemed like they were having a good time. We just kind of went on a day. But it's like, you know, it's, it's part of it is, I have anxiety, so I do have a little bit of hyper vision. Of hyper vigilance. But something that brought me and my husband so close together when we started dating was just the opportunities and times that we could be helpers. There was a time, I think, maybe a month before we started dating, I didn't even like, you know, know him yet, but there was a man who had collapsed outside of a Walmart, and, you know, nobody else was helping. And my husband went over this course before we were married, and just started doing CPR, and later learned that this man had the same name as his father. Like, how, you know, spooky is that he doesn't really know what happened to that man, but, you know, he was, you know, got into a, like an ambulance, but it's just like you have to show up, like it's just the implied necessity. And that's obviously why we ended up getting arrested together, because we stayed around together, because we stayed around to the protests so long, making sure that, you know, elderly folks had gone home, and making sure that young people were gone, and anyone who was like, maybe experiencing trauma or really activated by the trauma of all the police being there were able to, like, you know, go back home and not be disruptive, even though you. The police ended up being the most disrupted in this case. And there was another time when we were in DC. I mean, I think it was maybe six months after we had gotten arrested in Baton Rouge, and we saw this man just passed out on the sidewalk, and there was another man hovering over him, and we were like, Oh, well, there's somebody helping. And we looked a little closer, and we think this guy was robbing the other line. And so we pull over, and actually what happened is it was a one way street. Don't do this. I don't recommend driving irresponsibly, but if you're there to help, maybe it's okay. We're driving. And we both were like, Okay, we both look, can we go back? And we said it like, almost in unison. It was like a film. And so we just put the car into reverse on a one way not advisable. And then we go, and as soon as we pull up, the guy who we think was robbing him takes off. Yeah. And so we just stuck around with this guy who was unconscious and like until an ambulance could arrive. But it doesn't take much to be an activist. It doesn't take much to be somebody who cares. I think that we really as a society, with this online generation, online activism is so important. It's so incredibly accessible, particularly for people who might have, you know, social anxiety or can't leave the house because they might have, you know, immunocompromised and be immunocompromised, or have a chronic illness or chronic pain disorder, or be disabled or have more mobility issues. But at the same time, for those of us who are out in the world who experience and witness these things, you stopping and seeing if someone is simply all right or okay, you know, like they do, you're right, yeah, like, just stopping by and checking can go so far, and I think that's what you know, what we say when, like, all politics are local, like all these actions that we take must be so local and in our lives, because it doesn't really mean so much if you posted all the hashtags and all the slogans, but you ignore everyone on your second you and you see someone suffering, you don't necessarily stop to help. That said doesn't mean you have to be that you do it without strategy or you do it without skill. There are so many incredible trainings you can take to be a bystander, bystander intervention. I've done trainings with that. You know, there are so many things we can do, yeah, and I think recognising that is why I feel so kind of emotionally buoyant when terrible things happen, because I feel at least comforted by the fact that there are so many things we can do as much as there are things that we can't.
Nadia Nagamootoo 12:10
Yeah. I mean, it's just incredible how much, how active you are, and how much of an influence you've had in a relatively short space of time. We're doing in 2020 at the point when you got arrested,
Blair Imani 12:22
That was actually 2016 so one of the things I kept saying to people is like, I'm an OG you know, now, my thing is, whenever you get involved is important. But you know, with the protests being in 2016 four years before, you know, Black Lives Matter, and the idea of like showing up became fashionable. Of course, it ebbs and flows. Was something I kept repeating because I was online and I was talking about stuff, and people were like, well, what have you really done? And I'm like, Oh, you sweet summer child, let me put you to class, you know, yeah. And it's been a huge part of not just my like, credibility in the community, but like, street cred and just it really changed me so much. Sorry, though.
Nadia Nagamootoo 12:59
Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, I'm interested in your viral series Smarter in Seconds. So because, you know, obviously I've been following you, I can see what you're talking about. I loved, by the way, what you put out about Thanksgiving, which was only just a couple of months ago. It was obviously in November last year, and you're busting some myths, often, almost all the time, in fact. I mean, that's kind of your thing. So talk to me a little bit about the myth behind Thanksgiving and maybe we can explore kind of the reception you get when, when actually, because people's deeply held values, their traditions, you're kind of like blowing, blowing out the water, and kind of going, do you realize what you're celebrating here? So, yeah, what is, what's, what's behind Thanksgiving that you want people to understand? Well, I want
Blair Imani 13:52
to start by acknowledging the Wampanoag type, aquatic nations who are in, you know, what we now call New England and their ancestral lands, and those were the first folks who the Pilgrims encountered, and later, you know, enslaved harms, displaced. So here's the narrative that we hear about Thanksgiving, the pilgrims, who are trying to seek out refuge from religious discrimination, and why we have religious freedom in the United States, came to the Americas, and they were welcomed by the Native Americans, who, in this story would be called Indians, even though it's totally inaccurate, and the Native Americans welcomed them and brought them into shelter. They taught them how to fish and how to farm, how to do agriculture, how to shelter themselves, and took them under their wing. And then they all had a big Thanksgiving celebration, and everybody was fine. And then the pilgrims were like, Hey, can we bring, like, maybe a million of our friends back from England? And the Native Americans were like, cool, we'll just willingly go on to reservations ourselves, and then they high fived, and everybody skipped into the sun, like, you know, to the sunset. And like, if you hear that story constantly, you're gonna be like, Great, awesome. I'm gonna have this turkey. I'm gonna do my Black Friday shopping at Walmart. Get right.
Nadia Nagamootoo 14:54
It's a comfortable story.
Blair Imani 14:56
The other thing is, that's the story everyone's told these little kids. They are Catholic. Kids dress up as pilgrims with our, you know, big buckle hats. The other kids dress up as, you know, Indians, Native Americans with feather head dresses. And it's like, so that's the baseline as time has progressed. And the other thing is that it's so contrived because that didn't actually happen. One, obviously two, Thanksgiving became a holiday. It wasn't something that, like, was celebrated and then got distorted later on, or was revisionist from, you know, like the 1600s onward. It was something that was created by President Abraham Lincoln after a letter writing campaign from a woman whose name was Sarah Josepha Hale, and she had a letter writing campaign to Abraham Lincoln saying, hey, the civil war is going on. The vibes are bad. Probably not a direct quote. Can we have a holiday that brings the country together? And Abraham Lincoln was like, sounds great. And then history, you know, erased her, even though, who knows what she was writing in her letters? I'm sure there. The letters might actually be available, and I might do a video about that later. Um, but it became this thing to, like, smooth over the country as brother was fighting against brother for states rights to do slavery. That's a whole other area that we could cover as well. Um, because a lot of people in the United States hear that like, the civil war wasn't about slavery. I don't know why people keep bringing that up. The woke us keep bringing it well, because it's what it was. But there's so much vision, is it? Anyway? So it became this holiday that was created to bring the country together, to have something and it created this mythology. And it was really, like, they would be sending out pamphlets, and like, educators across the nation teaching kids like, this is the curriculum. This is what we're going to do. This is a new tradition. And so yes, over a series of, decades and hundreds of years, it became part of this American psyche. But at the same time, this was before Native Americans, the first peoples of the United States, what we now call the United States, had citizenship or the right to vote or even start businesses. They did not have a say in their own lives, direction of their futures. There was this campaign of putting, you know, indigenous children into, you know, like settler homes. And, you know, it was called, it was a terrible campaign. It was called, you know, kill the Indian, save the child. And this is something that has just an ongoing legacy. So with that context, it makes sense that there wasn't this counter narrative, because there was no opportunity for it outside of the indigenous communities themselves, which were already being separated, which were already being, you know, whitewashed. Essentially, the narrative was so were the people, and yet the people persist and continue to be here. And I think that's why it's so important for me to start this by talking about the Wampanoagquitic nation. And so with thanksgiving, it continues on, and it becomes this time to come together, but on such a contrived lie. Now, I didn't learn any of that growing up. Yes, we did the, you know, pilgrims and Native Americans. I talked about that in my video, but my parents, like, for lack of a better word, are radicals and hippies. And they were, like, Not on our watch. And they got me this book about, like, the black Native Americans. And like, yeah, for indigenous people. And there was just so many opportunities to tell her, and they'd be like, so you're gonna go to school. You're gonna listen to this. And my parents would also tell me, because I was one of the only black students at my school. It was, like, predominantly East Asian, with a few South Asian students and white and so I would be in class being like, actually, that's not correct. No, she's not right. But I also had teachers who felt empowered to do that. Like, the first time I learned about Columbus and like, Columbus Day and why we celebrate. It was my teacher reading his journals, you know, like, kind of censored for the classroom, journals where he talked about wanting to commit genocide against Native people in, you know, what, the Taino people. And so I think that that's my context, right? So when I hear about people like following this lie, I forget sometimes. Forget sometimes that there's just a complete mismatch into what people believe and the information that is accurate, and we have to bridge that, and I think that has to be done with a decent level of compassion. I think it's deeply traumatic, and it's, I think, a tall order to expect someone whose family, familial trauma and ancestral history is wrapped up in someone's lack of knowledge about it. Teach me about your oppression, and I'll decide whether I care or not. Is a really difficult thing to expect someone to do. And so what I try to do with Smarter in Seconds is work with different educators, work directly with the people. I was able to collaborate on that post with the Wampanoag Nation. Work with folks like Kara Roselles on a video about the Thanksgiving previously, and make sure it's very rooted, while also encouraging people to learn about the indigenous land that they're on. Think about making reparations. There are land reparations you can make instead of, you know, or while you're paying rent to whatever things we have in the US. You can also consider paying rent to the people who were originally you don't having that land and giving people a solution to take on. And I so I think this video that I did, and it did really well on Thanksgiving, was kind of like, hey. So you may have learned this whoopsie daisy. Here's actually what happened in trying to take the guilt out of it. Because a lot of times what I find when it comes to, you know, anti oppression, education, anti racism. Education is this function of white supremacy, which is that either I'm the binaries, like, it's all good, it's all bad, I'm bad, I'm good, and it's very carceral. Throw myself away. And what I try to do is lift people up into it's like, not a call out, but a call up, right? Like, let's be better. Let's be our higher selves. Let's come to a higher. Vibrational frequency to just use really California language.
Nadia Nagamootoo 20:02
I love that call up because it's it's so tough for people. I talk about this in my book, that discomfort and how people can be so disconcerted at feeling the guilt and the shame and not knowing whether they're meant to feel it, and then when they do inevitably feel a little bit of some emotion, whatever emotion that is, they then push back with defensiveness or anger or what, you know, whatever is, you know, it's, it's an a non- productive behavior, and it, and it ends up being a quite an aggressive conversation. They just want to shut it down because it you're challenging their fundamental traditions and their values. What's important to them? Ultimately, people like Thanksgiving, because it's a wonderful way to bring their family together and eat some nice food. And you know, it's a wholesome you know, they're not even thinking about the story behind it often, which is
Blair Imani 21:01
the disconnect as well exactly the folks who have the knowledge and the education. And I'm sure there are people out there who are like raw, raw indigenous genocide, and I that's very much the case, but I think that there are a lot of people out there as well who just were caught a lie, and once they learn it, kind of questioning, what do I do now? Does that make me a bad person? Totally and then it starts to spiral. And I think that what I've learned as an educator over these years is that education and learning is so deeply vulnerable, and that's why I love your book so much. I was getting into it last night. I just got it yesterday, and I've been reading it already because it's like, what do you okay, you have it's also, it's honestly a great pair. We should sell them as a duo. We should sign a bunch of copies and sell them. But an American with that, let's do a business. But I think it's like, okay, now you have the awareness. What do you do with it? How do you go past that feeling of, oh, that was hard to learn and move forward because we aren't taught that in many cases.
Nadia Nagamootoo 21:55
Yes, exactly. Now let's, let's go to your book now, because I am a huge fan of you and everything that you've written in this book, I loved it. Thank you. And starting at the beginning, I was reading and I was like, actually, there's some basics at the beginning that you cover. For example, people's names, okay? And I'm just going to quote you now so you say names are just the collections of letters and sounds that we call ourselves. And no one should feel entitled to make judgments about or be prejudiced towards a person based on them. And I picked this out particularly because I was like, that's such it's basic, it's simple. It's like, yeah, they are literally a collection of letters and sounds. It's socially constructed, right? What we did, you know. And yet, people have a problem with they have such a problem, like
Blair Imani 22:49
Tchaikovsky, I can pronounce that, but your name's Ahmed, I can't do that. And it's like, why white supremacy is the reason? But it's like, it's so absurd to me, and I anyway, sorry, continue.
Nadia Nagamootoo 22:59
I mean, I mean, that's my question, really is like, why is it? Why are people's names so controversial? What do you think is going on there?
Blair Imani 23:09
Well, I think a huge part of identity and perception and just the way that society is, I think a lot of people, unfortunately, learn who you I decide you are, is more important than who you are. I think that's what it fundamentally comes down to. I expected you to be this. You are not this. I am mad. And I think a deep part of that, more than anything, that's what's happening. But why? I think it's because people don't know who they are. I think it's desperately confronting for people when they see someone who has been expected by society to say, for example, be a man. You were assigned a boy at birth. You've grown up and you've realized, actually, I'm a woman. I've always been a woman. I had a girl had denied. You know, my friend Elle Deran is a great example of this, and she actually has an excellent book that talks all about allyship. You can check out her stuff online at Elle Deran. But I think that for someone who, like, you know, let's say, like, a very masculine, like, Spartan upbringing. You were, you know, you were born, you were assigned a boy. You were told not to cry by your father. You played football, you got injured, and you weren't allowed to talk about it. And you, you know, got a job in middle management. And just like your expectations, and you were judged. Now you're being judged because your hairlines are receding and you're just, you're doing all these things. And you see someone who's like, actually, I'd like to opt out, or, actually, that's not true of me, and I'm gonna do something else. If your entire self worth has been constructed around this idea that you should do as you're expected. And you see somebody succeeding in doing what they haven't been expected. I think that for a lot of people, there's this, like, just this frustration and resentment. How dare they be freer than me, while also recognizing, but I'm supposed to be free. I'm the privileged one. I'm the one that's supposed to have all the things I'm supposed to be successful, one, you know, but I'm a Cheerleader. This is not supposed to happen to me. Yeah, and I think that that can be really. Difficult, like, for like, when I was at LSU, I was a peer mentor because I could not get involved in enough stuff, and I would help to mentor a lot of the, you know, a lot of it was white women who, you know, were realising that they were queer and were part of sororities or on sports teams, and just felt so upset, and they would treat me so poorly when I'd be in class with them and I'd be their peer mentor, because they were trying to distance, and I knew it was happening. I was like, like, my parents both social workers, so they were just like, ever since I was a kid, I feel like I've had the cheat codes to human interaction. I'd be like, Oh, they're not really making fun of me. They're just upset that I'm comfortable with who I am, and they're not comfortable with who they are. So by attacking me that, like, even when I was in high school, I had a short haircut, and so did my we had a carpooling thing, and so so did my, like, carpool mate, and she actually has come out as queer, and, you know, so have I, obviously. But at the time, we were like, you know, 15, we're not really thinking about our sexual orientations. We're just trying to go to school and be on time, which was a struggle with trying to carpool. And they started calling us, like, all types of things, you know, at this all girls school as well. And I think the dynamics of it being an all girls school added all types of extra layers to, like the gender dynamics go as well. Yeah. So I went for six months, and then I swapped. I went to the public school because I started talking about how abstinence only sex education is ineffective, which I may or may not have done on purpose so I can get kicked out without having a tuition penalty. So little hot take for you there. But anyway, and they were calling us all types of things, and I think for my friend at the time, who I'll leave nameless because I don't have permission to tell this story, she really tries to distance herself from me, like she would ask to get dropped off before we kind of came on to the to the drive, so she didn't have to be seen with me. But for somebody who was really struggling with her queerness, it makes sense to me that she'd want to distance herself. Because I was very much like, call me a lesbian again. It would be okay if I was a lesbian. What's wrong with lesbian? Yes, because the expectation as a kid is to be like, you're a lesbian, you're queer. Yeah, no, I'm not. No, no. And I was just like, and what's wrong with that? Yeah, and so I decided the vibes were bad at that school, and I moved on. But I think that that's what it really comes down to. And we see this so often. Like Grindr came to a screeching halt at the Republican National Convention, the people who are literally writing legislation saying, Oh, well, should we keep gay marriage around? Oh, should, you know, LGBT families be able to adopt the people who are writing that stuff seem to have quite a few folks who are closeted. And it's like, I understand somebody not being closeted. We live in a very toxic, homophobic society, and if you can't be out, I completely understand that if you can't be out as trans or queer, but do not become a tool of oppression against your own community and your own people. And I think that when it comes all the way back to names, that's where it begins recognizing and accepting somebody in their truth, in who they are, outside of what you expect them. When you have been told that you have to be a certain way, some people want to just reinforce those things. They want to get, you know, dig their heels in and say, No, I'm going to be the one to do this. I'm going to stop you. And I don't think it's even conscious. Some people feel like it's too much work. Some people feel like they're going to get things wrong. What I've noticed recently in the States, just because I've seen it more, is people being really excited to properly gender someone, and getting a little disappointed when they don't use they, them pronouns, yeah. Like, disappointing. This woman was at the gas station, and she kind of has like, an androgynous look, the gas station attendant was like, and my pronouns, are she her? What are your pronouns? And she was like, she her, and she goes, Oh, just a little disappointed that you can't practice your gender equity. But I think that names are so basic, and what I try to remind people, whether it's having fear around New Year's resolutions, it's a con. Everything's a construct, and while it still has meaning and importance, we can decide what we uplift and what we don't, and we can decide to treat each other right and we don't necessarily. We shouldn't have to be taught that, but a lot of people are taught the contrary. So why don't we try teaching people how to treat each other beyond the golden rule? Yeah, yes,
Nadia Nagamootoo 28:57
I love that. And one thing that you discuss in your book, which I get this often in workshops with leaders who are confused, I'm going to use that word, they're stuck, and the reason they're stuck is that they feel that diversity, equity and inclusion means surely, including everyone, right? And so if someone has views that you disagree with, then that should be okay. But then they start getting, they sort of spiral out of that and go, well, so if they commit a crime, does that mean that that's okay? Or if they have racist views, we should still be inclusive of everyone. So are we saying that we can be inclusive of some people, but not the people we disagree with? So, I mean, I love one of your reels, which talks about the, you know, the belief that ancient aliens built the pyramids, and Egypt. You know, if someone genuinely believed that, should we not be inclusive of their perspective? So I'd love to hear your view on, how do we explain what diversity, equity inclusion includes, and when it's okay to disagree with someone and just say like that's morally wrong?
Blair Imani 30:20
Yeah. Well, I did laugh when brought up the Ancient Aliens, because it's so out of the box. If somebody did have that belief, I would not laugh in their face. I laughed, you know, because I do find it funny. I might actually laugh in their face a little bit, but not at them, but just trying to. So whenever I have I love to go to the pub, to the bar in the States, sit at the bar, you know, have a little like tonic water or whatever, and just chat with people, and you get the most out of box. And I think I kind of come across as very open. Also I'll be sitting by myself, and I'll get people asking me just the strangest questions. And I think the first thing is to try to assume a neutral intention, you know, when you have people, sometimes when people do say, out of pocket, out of, you know, context, things. It can be really confronting. It can be a little activating, yeah? To make you a little defensive, yeah? But to try to understand, then there's situations where somebody's clearly trying to deny that you should deserve to exist, or, you know, and it can be so dicey. It's not just when it comes to DEI, it's when it comes to pop culture. Yeah, I dressed up as a Muslim version of Geordi La Forge from Star Trek The Next Generation. And people were pissed. They were like, there's no Muslims in space. And I was like, well, babes, I hate to tell you, but there's no Star Trek. Star Trek's made up,
Blair Imani 31:32
and there's no such thing as a visor. I was like, Star Trek is made up, but Islam is real. But anyway, and so it just turned into this whole row. I'm chilling minding my business at Comic Con, like I love to do, right? LeVar Burton, who played Geordi, la Ford, loved it, and it kind of looked so cinematic. My friend Kaelan Barowsky, he's one who actually encouraged me to photograph it and or he photographed it, and then it went viral. People are in the comments going to absolute holy war with each other over there's no religion in space. There's no Star Trek. And it became this whole thing. You can disagree about things that aren't inherent traits to who someone is. You have disagreements with the inherent trait to whom someone is. That's called bias, and that's something I'm happy to work through with you. But if you're not willing to learn and to open and to be open and to grow, that's different. Yes, I think a great example is in the United States, and hopefully it hasn't gone elsewhere. But Blue Lives matter. Why is this response to Black Lives Matter? Just this idea that when someone says Black Lives Matter, it's not to say and no one else, it's to account for the fact that my people were literally sold, bought, inherited, traded, our lives were decided by people who are not us for the inherent reason that we were black. Yeah, and all the things that the context that came with and to say, actually we do matter, because we've been told throughout history that we don't. And for you to respond, well, police matter too, is such a ridiculous non sequitur, because what you're saying is that the police are against black people, which is telling on yourself a little bit in the context of the US and, you know, globally, when it comes to policing. And so I think like it's having this approach. But I think also, I think about my friend Richie Raciata, who's an amazing abolitionist, who talks about, well, what does it look like for us to try to rehabilitate people? What does it look like for us to go outside of this kind of carceral way of thinking where we throw people away, we do try to contain the harm, not necessarily in a prison, but maybe through workshops. There's been so many experimental communities out of Florida, for example, of trying to take people who have been harmful, say to children, and what does it look like for those folks to rehabilitate and reintegrate and figure out how to do that safely? And I think it's just like we need different approaches in different contexts. But it does not mean that we should sit idly by and tolerate someone espousing dehumanising language against not just you, but anyone else, not only because it's harmful to the other people in the other communities, but it actually dehumanises yourself, and that's something that Desmond Tutu talked about. I wish it Desmond Tutu, the late talking about how when you participate in harm, you make yourself less human. And I think that's really what it is, and then it becomes this righteous struggle for saving everyone's soul. And, you know, as a Muslim, that really speaks to me. And I think that it's just incredibly exciting, because even when you see someone who seems so far gone, like, how incredible would it be to, like, get through to Alex Jones, for example, or Joe Rogan, like, that's like, that's like, my like, my white whale. You know what I mean? Let's go No pun intended. That was terrible. Oh my gosh. Cancel me for that, that terrible pun. But I think it becomes exciting, because it's like, well, what would it take? And it becomes a thought experiment. How could I get through to them? How could I help them see what they're doing is harmful, and then you have to recognise that maybe it's not an education issue. Maybe they're just deliberately harmful because they know it's profitable to make you. Know, insecure we talked about incels recently. Feel entitled. Instead of telling incels to develop a personality and learn how to become charming, let's tell them that they deserve sexual. Attention from women because they exist, and then sell them products and supplements that are going to make them feel more of a man while making them feel less of a man, because they're literally dehumanising themselves at the same
Nadia Nagamootoo 35:09
same time, which is the irony of it, really, isn't it, they're trying to claim back their masculinity
Blair Imani 35:14
while also being told that they're a little boy by a man who doesn't even like them or care about them. I mean, Andrew Tate's another horrific example. And I've even seen recently, there's one YouTuber, I don't even want to name him, who had this little boy come up to him at like, a convention, and was like, Hey, we hate women, right? And like, go to high five. And you could see this kid who he can't be, maybe older than 25 was like, I think I'm doing I'm doing the wrong thing. Because if you're just in an echo chamber of your own, you know, apartment, yelling at a camera all the time, it doesn't feel like that. But when you see that you've influenced an eight year old, it starts to wake people up. And I think that there's always hope when it comes to people. As long as a person is alive, there's hope. Yeah, I think because you can turn around, you can try to get through to them. There's even been rehabilitation studies when it comes to the Taliban and how we fight radicalisation, not in kind of the traditional way of further, sometimes, in many cases, marginalising people, but recognising the key roots of radicalisation, which is often economic struggle. It's often, and this is getting into my husband's field of study, which is, you know, national security studies, but looking at how Fred Hampton of the Black Panthers, was able to get through to white supremacists, people who were like, actually, we are the superior race. Everyone should be below us. Slavery, that was fine. They still fought with the Black Panthers, which is why it was so threatening to the US government. Because they were, I think to some extent, they realized we are being played, yeah, we are being played by the capitalists and the billionaires who are trying to control us and put us against each other. And it was incredibly effective. And so I always think about that, like when I'm at a bar in Oklahoma somewhere, and I meet someone who goes, Well, you look woke. Can I ask you a question? I'm like, please do. It's America. People say anything. It gets me so excited, because I'm like, this is going to be material.
Nadia Nagamootoo 37:02
I mean, what you just said, though, I mean, it's it, it's such a current truth that we're being controlled by the minority. I mean, you look at Elon Musk, you look at Donald Trump, you look at, you know, some
Blair Imani 37:13
of the try not to be honest. Well, right. But
Nadia Nagamootoo 37:17
unfortunately, we have these dominant male people, politicians who have so much power, and literally are the puppeteers, and feels like have a lot of control over what people think, do say at you know how, how people are living their lives and and these big influences, like you've mentioned, Andrew Tate, you know, it's just, it's a, it's a viral culture, cultural movement where people end up believing that they can cause harm, and it's okay to cause harm to other people.
Blair Imani 37:56
And it's such a scam too, because those same folks, like, literally, Elon Musk will sell you this dream. Like he himself is against I think he's even disowned his own child for being trans. Well, he himself has gotten quite a few gender affirming surgeries to improve his hairline, his jawline, doing all these things to be more of an image of a man that he has constructed in his mind so that he can feel the fullest version of himself, which I love for him. That's amazing, but don't do that at the expense of other people who are, in many cases, trying to do the same thing. But in the case of Elon Musk or Donald Trump, for a lot of people, I think in the United States, there's nothing you can't discount the fact that for a lot of people, his name is so recognizable. You see it on the side of buildings. You see, you know, Trump golf clubs. You see this image of what the American dream can be without any of the context of how handed it was to him, and you think, well, at least I can have that. At least I can do that. And I think, as we saw at the last election, it was just more comfortable for people to buy for a slice of this pie that will forever be out of reach to them, then share in that pie with people who don't look like them, right?
Nadia Nagamootoo 38:56
And that's that brings sadness to me. I have to say, you know that that people are willing to give up something of them in order to protect the lives that they currently have, the power that they currently have. And it, it does feel like it's a power conversation here. It's 100% and
Blair Imani 39:16
I have this um brain blast. I'll call it uh, it's from the show Jimmy Neutron brain blast. But anyway, it was like, if oppression is a bear in the forest chasing you down, some people just want to outrun their slowest friend. That's all it is. And I think COVID is a great example. A lot of people were willing to sell out disabled folks, yeah, for a sense of normalcy. Um, when it comes to, uh, even, I was just looking at some polling, some exit polling, when it came to the US, even Hispanic voters, many of whom, themselves are immigrants, not in every case, um, but we're willing to sell out. In many cases, Central American folks who are trying to come to the United States to make a better future for themselves. A lot of people are just trying to, I mean, everywhere, I think especially in the... in the UK, you'll see people who, themselves are immigrants who are trying to sell out the last immigrant to arrive, or less refugee to arrive, because a lot of people just don't want to get attacked by the bear. They just want to be ahead of some people don't want to return Mount Rushmore to the indigenous peoples. They just want their faces on it. Yeah, and I think that's that's where relative privilege comes in, but I think there are a lot more people. Just to bring it back to the hope, I think there are a lot more people, yeah, who are too tired, too busy working so many jobs, to pay attention to what's happening. And that's what I try to do with smarter in seconds. Is just to give you a little snippet exactly like, Hey, I was walking around in Oregon, I noticed there weren't a lot of black people. Turns out it's because Oregon banned black people instead of dealing with the issue of slavery - Smarter in Seconds - and that can help people have better context to the things that are maybe things aren't the way they are just because, but because it's been made that way. And maybe it can be unmade.
Nadia Nagamootoo 40:51
Yeah. I mean, it's just so powerful what you're doing, and now you've flown over to the UK to make a very special TV program with me, with some other amazing women. We filmed it yesterday. It's called Her Story, Our Voices. And for International Women's Day, we've we've had this conversation around the state of the world when it comes to gender equity, women's equity. And in particular, I'm interested in what drew you to come to fly it, fly across and have this conversation? Because it's, I mean, I'm just so, so delighted and so grateful that you have but I'm interested in, why, why did you say yes?
Blair Imani 41:32
Well, if there's one thing about me, I'm always going to say yes. I think that, you know, there's such an issue of being invited to the table that when you do have an invitation, you can't refuse it, you know? And I think that any opportunity to share space, because it's such an intentional format as well, I get invited often to do debates, you know, where it'll be a good kind of cash grab, it'll be good visibility, it'll be a good amount of views. And I used to say yes, which is why I ended up accidentally coming out on Fox News, but it's another story. But I think that doing something so intentional and so aligned and for the purpose of Women's History Month, and having that kind of global context and allow being allowed to share my perspective, it felt like a deep honor to the work that I tried to do, and it felt like just an amazing opportunity to learn more. And what I loved about the conversation is that I was I caught. I found myself being like, Oh, I meant to say something. Now I was kind of just like, sitting listening to, you know, Dame, uh, Kelly Holmes, right? And I was just like, wow. Like, just like listening and hearing all the different perspectives, and hearing um Montell Douglas's story about, like, you know, how she was kind of like, typecast, and all the things that she's gone through. And just like bearing witness to other people's experiences as women and talking about the sisterhood is so necessary and so important. And I don't, I think, as also as a content creator, a lot of the work that I do is alone. You know, I have an amazing creative director named Cat Wheeler, who I get to, you know, be in community and space with almost every day, except for weekends, because we love the unions out here, but I think that it's just so special, and I don't take for granted those opportunities. And I'm I'm so glad that I did, because it was absolutely incredible.
Nadia Nagamootoo 43:14
I am so glad and grateful that you did. So that's out on the Eighth of March, going to be shown on Generation Black TV. And aside from that, what can we look forward to in 2025 when it comes to you your work, what are you what are you up to? I'm going
Blair Imani 43:30
to focus more on Smarter in Seconds, but I have a really exciting Podcast coming out, a tangible thing that people will be able to tune into and, you know, dissect, is a new podcast with my friend Mychal Threets. It's librarian Mychal Threets, it's called thoughts about feelings. And so I'm so excited about that, because I think that, you know, just like this conversation like this, is a conversation about holding space, getting into the context, into the nuance. And I think that, unfortunately, a lot of podcasts have been dominated by this, like, kind of high energy, like you turn it on, and by the end of it, you feel more activated than you did, and not necessarily always in a good way, rather, yeah, and so kind of a a lullaby for your heart, and something that we can just really get back into the thoughts and feelings of it all. And I'm really excited about that, because Mychal Threets is amazing. We have an amazing production team with Nine Planet Studios, and I find that when something's meant to happen, it really just comes together, just like, you know, this has come together for you this podcast, yeah, not without an incredible amount of work, right? There's always work. There's no overnight successes, right? It's always preparation. People don't see
Nadia Nagamootoo 44:31
it often the work that goes into it. But I there's something around if it's meant to be, and I like to live by that philosophy, if it's meant to be, then it will be. And with some effort, an additional effort, it would it's, it will be amazing,
Blair Imani 44:48
absolutely. And so, um, my friend Mychal, and I, like, two weeks after the election, or a week after, I was like, Hey, how are you doing? What if we started a podcast? And he was like, Yeah, let's do it. And I was like, Hey, I'm going to Australia. We can meet. Yeah, like, right before I go. And we did, and then the next day, a producer was like, hey, so do you want to make a podcast? And I was like, actually, I literally just yesterday, two days before, and it was a thought, yeah. And then we did a post where we were like, Hey, so we need guests now. It just kind of like, and people are saying, people who I'm like, I kind of think I'm getting to the place in 2025 where I'm like, Am I successful? Have I done it? Cause I was telling people to step into their own power. But I'm also reflecting on that constantly, and so many people are, like, pitching themselves, and people are saying, you should get Dolly Parton. I'm like, I couldn't get Dolly Parton. Maybe I could get Dolly Parton. Maybe, if I believe that, I could get Dolly Parton, Dolly Parton will go on the podcast. So manifest. Dolly Parton, so that'd be a fun shirt. But I think that it's just, I don't know it's exciting time. And I think, you know one thing I would just tell our listeners, when it comes to like, you thinking about what you need to do next, or what's coming next. Think sometimes when we hear about what people are doing next, can make us feel like, oh, but what am I doing if you're just existing? That's so powerful in this economy, yeah, oh my gosh, right. And as Myhcal threats always says, Thanks for being here, thanks for being here another day, exactly.
Nadia Nagamootoo 46:07
So powerful. I mean, my goodness, Blair, I could. I have so many more questions for you, but we ran out of time, so I know, obviously you are on Tiktok, you're on Insta, you're on YouTube, what?
Blair Imani 46:21
I'm also on LinkedIn, and a little linked influencer. So if you want to follow me over there for some discourse and Dei, I'm very woke, so okay, you don't like that, yeah, no, follow me anyway. So you can learn to like it too,
Nadia Nagamootoo 46:33
Exactly, but be open minded. Everything that Blair and I have spoken about today is going to be on the usual show notes page, on the Nadia Nagamotoo.com website, we'll make sure that things that you've mentioned, Blair will just get links for that and make sure that it's all there for you. Thank you. A million times over, I just feel privileged to know you now, to have met you, to have had this conversation, and I know that there's more to come. Isn't there absolutely more for us?
Blair Imani 47:08
I feel like we were meant to meet, and things are going to go very well. Yes, thank you. Thank you.
Nadia Nagamootoo 47:15
That concludes this special episode of Why Care? What I love and admire about Blair is her willingness to name things, whether it's the many examples where history has been rewritten to make it more comfortable for people to digest, or the systems of power, control, and oppression that are threaded through today's world. We need more people like Blair. Do let Blair and I know what you thought of today's show. You can find me on LinkedIn and Insta with the handle at Nadia Nagamootoo.com, as always, I really appreciate your support of this podcast through leaving a review on whatever platform you're listening and spreading the word by sharing it with your friends and family. Huge thanks to Mauro at Kenji productions for editing this podcast and Jenny Lynton for getting it out there on social media.
