Why Care? #25: Devi Virdi - The Power of Truth
“When it comes to creating that inclusive culture, frankly you’re either leading the way or getting in the way – because neutral doesn’t exist”
In Episode 25 I am joined by Devi Virdi, Group Head of Diversity & Inclusion at Centrica, to discuss how cultural intelligence is key to inclusive leadership, the importance of collecting employee data, and ‘the power of truth’.
Devi’s DEI journey is one flavoured by many different cultures, and journey is definitely an appropriate word. Devi has worked for most of her career in the travel and hospitality sector, working across various sectors and functions including HR, sales, marketing and operations. It was during a leadership role that Devi looked around the room and realised – no one else looked like her.
It was this feeling of ‘onlyness’ that initially empowered her to stand up and make a difference. We speak on what it is like to experience these complex feelings of being the only, and why it inspired Devi to become a change agent. She realised that many of their teams didn’t resonate with the cultures they operated in, and this highlighted the need for greater cultural intelligence.
Devi has a great passion for cultural intelligence (or ‘CQ’), and she elaborates on why she thinks it’s so crucial for leaders to understand, and why it is a key trait (along with many others) needed for inclusive leadership. She brought this passion to her role at Centrica and it led to establishing a ‘Shadow Board’ - providing diverse mirrors to the Centrica Board to help them better understand the diversity present in the company so they can strive for better inclusion in their decision making.
Part of understanding the employees at Centrica better includes regular data collection on their characteristics and experiences. Devi shares that asking the right questions is crucial to understanding what your employees need, and investing to meet this. We then talk about how to create the right environment to allow employees the safety to be able to answer these questions fully and honestly.
To finish our conversation I ask Devi what she thinks DEI will look like in 20 years’ time, and she answers that she believes it will lie greatly with further advances in technology allowing for greater inclusion, but only if these technologies are made with inclusive thought and voices.
Links:
Devi can be found on LinkedIn as Devi Virdi
More from Centrica can be found on https://www.centrica.com/
To hear Why Care? episodes first, sign up to our newsletter here, and you can find more from us at Avenir via our LinkTree here.
Transcript
Devi Virdi 00:00
Look, inclusion is actually tough, and it is a complex journey of truths. Because the reality is, we still don't face those truths. And let's be honest, we are really uncomfortable with the truth, and that we are actually really uncomfortable with difference. This is important, because in society, actually in a business, the reality is we need to own that truth as part of being human, as who we are, because if we don't own it, frankly, we're not going to get over it.
Nadia Nagamootoo 00:29
Hi, my name is Nadia Nagamootoo, Business psychologist, coach, speaker and founder of Avenir consulting, which creates organisational growth and success by inclusion and diversity. We've been discussing the benefits that diversity brings to a company's bottom line performance for decades with more and more evidence, but there are so many questions organisations still have about how to achieve it. How do you create a culture where people feel valued for their uniqueness and the qualities they bring? I believe it's crucial to the future success and sustainability of every organisation that they find the answer to this question to make sure that each employee is not only supported but also appreciated. With this podcast, I aim to get some of the key challenges to creating inclusive workplaces out in the open and start uncovering the solutions to embracing a culture that cares for everyone. I'm going to be having conversations with some of the most inspiring people in different countries and across industries who are pushing the boundaries on inclusion and diversity in the workplace, from topics such as parenting in the workplace, ethnicity, age, gender, mental health, and all things inclusion. I want to create a movement to change society through sharing life experiences and creating more empathy and connection. Why care? I believe that once we have organisations and societies that accept and value everyone for who they are, we become healthier, happier and better in our roles both inside and outside work.
Hello, it’s great to welcome you to a timely National Inclusion Week, Episode 25 of the Why Care Podcast. My name is Nadia Nagamootoo, and I am your host. In this episode, I speak to a truly inspiring DEI professional, Devi Virdi. Devi is the Group Head of Diversity and Inclusion at Centrica, and is responsible in building the global D&I strategy. She’s had DEI roles in both hospitality and travel tech industries, and was recognised as the 2021 Top 50 Women in Travel Industry for her work in DEI. She also sits on a number of UK and global committees supporting and driving diversity, equity and inclusion. Devi and I cover huge ground in this episode, primarily focused on the concept of inclusive leadership, and the rewiring needed for leaders to be conscious, curious, collaborative and build their cultural intelligence. Devi shares the work she's been doing at Centrica, which is supporting its significant progress towards cultural maturity. She offers examples where leaders and staff can feel safe and connect and collaborate, offer feedback and listen with curiosity. This episode is packed with amazing insights. Enjoy. Devi, it is amazing to have you on the Why Care Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Devi Virdi 03:07
Thanks for having me, Nadia, so delighted to just be able to spend some time with you. It's a topic that is incredibly close to my heart. So yeah, I’m very thrilled to be here. Thank you.
Nadia Nagamootoo 03:18
Well, I'm really excited to get some insights. We're going to talk broadly about inclusive leadership, and that's a subject very close to both our hearts, but also really what it means in your business at Centrica. But first, before we do, let's just hear about you. So, tell me a bit about your career. How did you end up in diversity, equity and inclusion space?
Devi Virdi 03:40
Oh, wow, great introduction. Thank you. So I guess if I go back to the starting point, I think that always tends to provide some perspective, right? So I grew up in Hong Kong. I'm the oldest of four siblings, and actually our family mantra growing up by my parents was, ‘where there's a will, there's a way’, and in fact, this was led from the front by a fiercely proud Indian mother who just encouraged all of us actually Nadia, to be independent, to be strong willed, right? And actually, really, for her it was about leaving the world a better place. And what I would say is actually, for me, it's been my NorthStar ever since, it's guided my decisions both big and small. Today, as a mother of two, living in London, working as a group head of D and I for a FTSE 100, I definitely use my experience and I would say my passion to drive positive change. But my career definitely wasn't an obvious one and nor was my path obvious. So, I began working in HR for a hotel group, and I soon found that my strengths actually pivoted me into business development and into commercials and sales and marketing. So, I then spent the past 20 years working for some of the biggest corporations on the planet. I've built, led, driven global commercial teams. I've also been a regional managing director for a global travel tech firm, which is actually where my D and I journey started.
So, I've sat around many exec meetings and realized that I was the only one that looked like me around the table, sometimes the only woman, only Asian woman, and actually that really empowered me to step up. It was really to up my game, to learn, to listen, to learn in. I've had to be bold; I've had to be resilient within my own career to actually allow me to compete at that same level. And I think I've always found the way, and it's something that my mom has always taught me. I am a people person, so I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve as they say, and I love meeting people from all walks of life. And having had the privilege of working in travel for the past 20 years, I've been incredibly fortunate to extensively experience different cultures, work in different markets. And actually, for me when I started the work in D and I, you know, if I talk about a number of years back, that's really allowed me to sort of get to understand the nuances that take place across different regions. So yeah, so I would definitely say I'm a change agent, I always find a way of getting things done. And believe me, that's what drives me, and that's what gets me up pretty much every single day.
Nadia Nagamootoo 06:21
You mentioned being the only woman and Asian woman, is that something that then drove you towards specializing in this area of diversity, equity and inclusion? It obviously seems to be an important part of your journey because you've mentioned it, how did that play a role?
Devi Virdi 06:34
Hugely, when you look around and you see that you are the only female in the room, but more so the only female that looks like you in the room, that absolutely propelled me. Because it was about, I have children, and I wanted to make sure that actually, there's an opportunity out there for colleagues who look like me moving up. So, it is about opening that door. And for me, particularly working in that hospitality space, you know, I worked for a very large global organisation, and when we looked at our own internal challenges, it started off on the gender lens. When we looked at our general management population, it was very heavily skewed to males, across our core markets. So really, that's where from a personal perspective, I started working within the D and I piece, but also with my team. So, I remember, you know, when I stepped in to lead the global commercial team within one of the hotel groups I was with, the teams didn't resonate to the markets that they were looking after. And so that for me was an absolute game changer that I had to change, because you have to understand what is happening in those countries, in those markets, those cultural nuances, if you talk about CQ, and bring cultural intelligence into this, right? And I'm an absolute fan of what CQ is all about and how that is about what an inclusive leader is, and actually what that looks like. But for me, it was about actually taking time, it took a number of years for me to readapt, to realign, to change, evolve my team, but then it was also about the bigger mission within our organisation. It galvanised me to try and make that change because of my own personal experiences of walking into a meeting room, and feeling quite uncomfortable and going, no, this can't be right, there's got to be space here for others, for other individuals in here. And for me, that's important.
Nadia Nagamootoo 08:25
So you mentioned there one of the skills, one of the qualities of inclusive leaders, which was CQ, so cultural intelligence. Do you think that that's the fundamental quality? I mean we could name a number of qualities, is there a fundamental quality? Or are there so many that are important to being inclusive?
Devi Virdi 08:42
You know, that's a really great question. I definitely think having a really good understanding of culture, and how that overlays into your teams and your organisation is so important. You know, people talk about EQ, your emotional intelligence, but we rarely hear enough of CQ. And in fact, for me, if you think about skills and qualities in an inclusive leader, CQ is absolutely up there. Do I think it's one of those fundamental qualities that a leader needs to demonstrate? Yes. Is it the only one? No. So I think that there's more than just the one. Being an inclusive leader and actually trying to link that into when you're trying to build a culture of inclusion, the two are very much interlinked, they're intertwined. And that culture could be even within your own team irrespective of the wider organisation. But to be an inclusive leader, yes, you've got to be able to give people confidence, you've got to be able to inspire them to do their best work, because it's not about command and control, it's about treating people fairly with respect, it's about valuing that uniqueness of every single person whether that's your team or whether that's the organisation.
And ultimately, you're there to create that sense of belonging, that's what being an inclusive leader is, that's actually what good inclusive leaders do. They have courage, they are curious, they have an understanding of those cultural differences, that's what cultural intelligence is, it's understanding those differences, that they are collaborative. Also, you know what? You're aware of your biases, you're also aware that you’re in blind spots and why, I think those are just some of those things. So, is there one quality? No, I think there's a multitude of different qualities an inclusive leader needs to have. Is one more important than the other? No, it's like you need them all, right? And you've got to be prepared to speak out, you've got to be able to challenge behaviours and others, you've got to be able to rock the boat. And that is about making improvements for your team, for the business.
What was really interesting, actually something I want to share, there was somebody who asked me earlier this year within this organisation, and asked me to explain why inclusion was important within the organisation. It was quite interesting, because you know, I realised that this individual was obviously at a very different point in their journey of understanding what inclusion was, and it was a senior leader. And actually, my response to the individual was actually quite simple. I said, look, without a culture of inclusion within this area, and I was talking specifically for this particular business unit, and I sort of shared, I said, anything you're trying to do around diversity is doomed to fail, let's be really frank about this. And why? Because colleagues won't feel safe to share, they won't be honest, they won't be transparent, right? And I'll be honest, I'm not keen on the buzzword of psychological safety, for me, it's a notion of sharing and being transparent and feeling safe enough to share, so that you don't feel that there are any repercussions that are going to happen to you based on what you've said. And actually, it's about the fact that colleagues then can't feel that they can bring their best selves to work. And actually, when it comes to creating that inclusive culture, frankly, you're either leading the way or you're getting in the way, because neutral doesn't exist.
Nadia Nagamootoo 12:03
I'm so with you on that. It does feel like there are different leaders sitting in different camps with regards to diversity, equity and inclusion. And some of them get it and they're putting in the work, not just in educating themselves, but also in building their courage to challenge, to be more curious, to learn, what does CQ mean anyway? How do I develop my cultural intelligence? So there are some leaders who are doing it, and there are others who are not. It feels to me that the complexity of what we're talking about when we're saying inclusive leadership is multifaceted. It's so layered because what we're asking leaders to do these days in order to be inclusive is quite complex that they are almost afraid of that complexity. This is how I think when I speak to leaders, do you get it? Or do you feel there's another barrier to people embracing inclusive leadership?
Devi Virdi 12:55
Good leadership is inclusive leadership. They are not two separate things; it is the same thing. Actually, I think the language needs to change. Good leadership is inclusive leadership. So, forget saying good leadership, it's being inclusive. If you think about the key leaders, I mean, for me, somebody like Barack Obama, oh, my goodness, I mean, I look at him and I idolise him, chalk and cheese compared to the next president. So, although I'm not an American citizen, but if I was making a comparison politically, very different inclusively. And you see that in the way they are with their mannerism, etc. Good leadership is inclusive leadership. It is not rocket science. It is not difficult to sort of be curious, but it's about wiring yourself differently, it's about being conscious about it. Do I think Nadia, everybody understands? Do I think that yes, it is complex of what being inclusive means?
I think actually, sometimes perhaps the word itself doesn't help maybe, in the sense that actually it could put individuals off. But then there's the second piece for me, it's about, look, inclusion is actually tough and it is a complex journey of truths, right? Because the reality is, we still don't face those truths, and let's be honest, we are really uncomfortable with truth, that actually we're really uncomfortable with difference. This is important, because in society, actually and in business, the reality is we need to own that truth as part of being humans as who we are. Because if we don't own it, frankly, we're not going to get over it. And actually, one of the things I think about the initiatives we've done at Centrica, right? Last year, we established a shadow board. And so, this is a group of colleagues who come from the business and they're from different parts of our business, and they provide a perspective to our leadership team, they speak truth to power. And every shadow board buddy has an individual in their leadership team that they're married up with.
Nadia Nagamootoo 15:03
Wow, I love that idea.
Devi Virdi 15:04
And that's where it's about the power of connection of what I call valuable engagement, right? They learn from each other's lived experiences, what is happening in that professional space, what is happening in their own lives, right? They have regular contacts with the leaders, and actually the leaders trust them enough to talk straight to them, that is powerful in itself. And actually, these trusted shadow board members, they give our leadership team that granularity of feedback. And what's really interesting is, yes, everyone is at a different level of understanding, but for them, very much it's about winning hearts and minds, as it is for me. And I think having the shadow board now, we're sort of eight or nine months into the phase, we've really seen some of the topics of conversation that they're bringing up to our leadership team. And if you think about inclusive leaders, I look at our shadow board, I think each of them are inclusive leaders. They might be the engineering population, they might be some of our analysts, but because they are our core bread and butter of our organisation, they absolutely share the granularity of what is happening back up to the leadership team. And actually, they cast an incredibly long shadow, because what they share is the power of the truth that's in there.
Nadia Nagamootoo 16:21
I love that concept. In the back of my mind, in order for that shadow board to work, they need to feel safe that when they are telling, when they are offering that different perspective, that granularity as you call it to the board, that their jobs aren’t on the line as a result, that they're not going to be penalised or criticised, or it’s going to be detrimental to their career in any way. So how do you create a culture? How do you get the leaders? Before you can set something up like that, surely there's work that needs to be done with those senior leaders to set that up for success.
Devi Virdi 16:57
That's a great question. You know, you're talking about 10 people, I'd say I'd flip a pyramid upside down, right? Because traditionally, most organisations if you think about it, you would have your chairman, your CEO, your C suite at the top end, right? And basically, the bulk of your population at the bottom end. I would flip that pyramid upside down, and actually the people that matter the most are the other ones that you historically see at the bottom, they're at the top, ultimately, your C suite, everyone serves this group here, it's about service. And I guess that's my DNA, coming from the world of travel and hospitality, it is about service to your own internal stakeholders and your customers, right? But one of the works that we did definitely with both the shadow board and our leadership team is actually they got to know themselves. What do I mean by that? We actually did some innovative insight sessions with them, where they got to know actually, what were their strengths? What were their weaknesses? Individually as a group of 10 with the shadow board. And forgive me, I don't know what the insights piece is called, but they got to know what colour they were and actually how they worked. And what was interesting was with the shadow board, they were like a myriad of colours from the rainbow. I mean honestly, it was just phenomenal to see the differences of people and their perspectives, you know there were some that were incredibly analytical and very data heavy, some that were very much go getters who want to get on, you know some who wanted to think about things beforehand. So, from a melting pot of 10, then when we did the insights with our leadership team, what was interesting was actually call to colours.
Nadia Nagamootoo 18:38
Fascinating.
Devi Virdi 18:41
Then you overlay the two together and, it's actually an awakening moment, because you actually realise that, you know, if we were doing a test, a study group, this is it at Centrica, this is studying how diversity actually works, where we've got colleagues not just from different business unit, different backgrounds and different cultures. If you wanted to look at that insights piece, at the difference of opinion, the difference of perspectives, everything that they bring together, then you bring that leadership piece and then you look at that difference, and yes you have one or two individuals who are just of the majority of the colour end, that's where they balance out, right? They're very heavy on two specific colours, but we've got two anomalies and that's where they balance up, when you overlay the two, you just go, Oh, my goodness, this is just pretty phenomenal. And what's really interesting is actually the leadership team are now better learning, they're getting the learnings from the shadow board.
Nadia Nagamootoo 19:40
Well, and that makes sense, right? Because of course there's this injection of thoughts, new ideas, new perspectives that they wouldn't have got if they were just staring at people who were very similar to them. And to me, that story says so much about what we reward, what we promote typically, in terms of leadership qualities, the sort of archetypal leader. And it goes back to what you said before , that what we were rewarding, what we thought was successful leadership in the past doesn't cut it when you measure it up against inclusive leadership qualities and skills. And so therefore, if inclusive leadership is the leadership that we're after, we're going to need to find a way to get these leaders who are already in place, who are quite rightfully very good at what they do but they don't have the complimentary people around them to be able to, there's a lack of diversity. So, this shadow board and what they're able to offer just makes so much sense to me.
Devi Virdi 20:41
What I would also say to that is that, it hasn't been plain sailing, and this is why I look at it and I think, this is such a great case study for us as an organisation, because yes, they have their differences, but it's about how they go about resolving those differences in a professional workplace environment. And yes, you've got colleagues who are in different markets who are part of this group, so you're getting to know that culture piece, again that culture piece comes back in as, not everybody is the same, not everybody thinks the same, not everybody acts the same, because you're bringing your lived experiences to the table. We have a chair, she's one of our long-standing female employees in our organisation, she's a black female who's been in the company for 30 years, as long as our CPO has been. So, what is brilliant is that, you've got somebody who's seen the perspective in a customer fulfilment environment, who's then worked in our digital transformation space, who's then been in procurement, and has just seen the different layers of the organisation evolve over the last 30 years, to bring that to the table, right? With, for example, a new female apprentice from our British gas engineering space. I mean just how awesome is that, right? And that is where for me that magic is. When you talked about, how else are they made to feel where they can speak truth to power, actually a lot of that sits with the leadership team and actually with Chris our CEO. And, you know he was very clear, right from the onset that this is an opportunity for you to speak truth to power, it's for you to share your perspective, right? It is really important, and that openness is gold dust.
Nadia Nagamootoo 22:25
It's crucial.
Devi Virdi 22:26
It is absolutely, yeah.
Nadia Nagamootoo 22:28
If he wasn't on board, it's clearly not going to stand the test of time, you're not going to get that openness, that safety that we spoke about. So yeah, I hear you, that CEO, senior leadership kind of openness to learning and the new experience and turning that pyramid upside down, that's challenging, that can be quite threatening to a lot of leaders who have, particularly if one of their core values and things that they throw for is power, because I imagine it feels like a relinquishing of power at times. That it's not just me and what I say, there's that collaborative element that you've already spoken about, which is necessary. I sometimes wonder whether collaboration and power are juxtapositions with each other. How do you marry up the two so leaders don't feel like they're letting go of power, that they don't feel threatened?
Devi Virdi 23:19
I think it's a really interesting question actually, because I think trust plays a big part in that.. When you talk about letting go of power, it's about having the courage to do so, right? And for me, if I think about our own sort of Centrica core values; transparency, courage, care, collaboration. These are our values and this is what everybody are expected to live and breathe in. We reward and give colleagues high fives when they show these, and we give each other recognition. So, within our own sort of internal reward mechanism, we support that, so to somebody demonstrating these qualities, you absolutely shout out about it. So when you think about power, actually power is in a title, and for me I actually put power aside, I think actually the younger generation in that sense, they have no issues, no qualms in terms of speaking to somebody who's a senior leader and perhaps versus somebody who's been in the company for 10 years, because that is the way things were done. The world has changed, the world has definitely moved on. Actually, that collaboration piece, if you can't collaborate with your leaders, there's a signpost as to where we don't get far, then employees don't feel comfortable asking for help. You're not going to challenge the status quo, because you're going to have the fear of having these negative consequences or whatever they are right? And what does that mean as a business? You are less likely to innovate, and that means that you aren't going to unlock the benefits of what diversity then brings in, and therefore you can't adapt well to change. To put that all together, why would you not be as a leader demonstrating those positive behaviours?
Nadia Nagamootoo 25:07
Absolutely.
Devi Virdi 25:08
Because that is just a no brainer for me.
Nadia Nagamootoo 25:10
It’s just at the tip of my tongue, it’s a no brainer. Let's talk about National Inclusion Week, because we’re in National Inclusion week and the theme for this year is, ‘Time to act, the power of now’, so I'd love to hear your thoughts from a Centrica perspective, what does that mean for the business? Those words specifically, what does that mean to you?
Devi Virdi 25:34
You know what? I think with the theme this year, it honestly couldn't be more fitting for us. And actually, the timing of it I would say, because obviously I think about our progress, and I'm not big on the word journey, right? That's just me personally, I'd rather talk about progress. I think actually if we don't address the issue of inclusion within our own organisation, the whole piece on diversity becomes not a failed experiment but nearly to that, right? Because what you'll end up doing is, you throw your hands up in the air, and you say, well, you know, we recruited, we trained, we brought in people from all different backgrounds, but actually we couldn't keep them, and the ones that are here, they aren't present, they aren't engaged. So, think of it in terms of representation, but also about the culture at Centrica we're trying to create about difference. So, on the front line, is diversity always a specialised topic? And when we think about the time to act and the power of now, are we making sure that in the organisation and in our teams we're getting the best of our team members? Are they fully engaged, Nadia? All of our business units this year, in Q1, they put together their diversity and inclusion action plans which are led from the managing directors across our organisation, and they are a moving feast, they evolve over every quarter. But it is about holding ourselves accountable. This is so key when we talk about the power of now, it's about measuring that progress, this is essential.
So, it's great that you put words on paper, now it's about making sure we're delivering against them month on month, week on week, quarter on quarter, because that is pivotal to this organisation to make the difference. It doesn't have to be big, it can be so small. It's the little things that matter, it's not the big things. It's about going into team meetings and bringing in a topic of inclusion for your quarterly team meeting. That's what it takes. It's about, how do we now start embedding it that it becomes part of our DNA? So, when we say the power of now, it's moving from, actually I've seen some of our business units, they are miles ahead. And what I mean by miles ahead is that it's in their marketing content, it's in their collateral, their procurement teams understand it. So, Centrica as a company, we have a multitude of different business units underneath us, and so everybody is at a different stage, you could say we've got micro cultures within our organisation, which is great. And as a whole, I see it in terms of when we talk about transparency and sharing our progress, we share our goals and our progress twice a year, I see where we are from our engagement surveys, which are definitely improving. One of the pieces of work when we talk about the power of now is in our self ID campaign, which we’ll be kicking off with on National Inclusion Week, it's called this is me. So, if you think of, and I guess you might be wondering where the inspiration song comes from, if you think of the greatest showman.
Nadia Nagamootoo 28:45
Yeah, I love that. It's exactly what I thought when you said it
Devi Virdi 28:48
That is it, that is absolutely it. It is about valuing everybody's differences, because what makes you great, that actually is the beauty about our difference. And so, we're launching our self ID campaign during National Inclusion Week.
Nadia Nagamootoo 29:05
Just to expand a little bit, self ID campaign is to encourage people to share aspects of themselves that they might have chosen, whether it's about having a disability, whether it's about their sexual orientation, whether it's about their ethnicity, certain data that typically HR want to collect, but tend to have missing data for certain things.
Devi Virdi 29:24
That's right. Yeah, absolutely. It's really about having a better understanding of our demographics Nadia, more than anything, right? So, we can then use the data, those insights, to better understand what we are doing well? And actually, where do we need to provide greater support to our colleagues? Where do we need to put the investment? It's changing that structural piece where those questions before really didn't give us anything. So, there's been a lot of work and making sure we're also asking the right questions to our colleagues, expanding where we now want to know our colleagues who are neurodivergent, so that actually we can provide the right investment, because actually, we're now getting to the point as an organisation where we're at that maturity stage. So, I guess for me, that’s where that data piece is going to be so rich, so incredible. I'm really excited. We are a very heavily male orientated organisation, so for me it's about better understanding our ethnicity piece from our colleagues, better understanding our colleagues’ backgrounds and better understanding where our investment is from those who are carers, for instance within an organisation. All of that that comes into place, you know colleagues who come from the ex-forces as well, again all the work that we're doing within that space, how can we support those colleagues from a wellbeing perspective, mental health perspective that comes into place?
Nadia Nagamootoo 30:49
I love that, I love that. And the thing that again pops into my mind is the two words around safety and trust here. And this is, unless you put the work in to building the trust, to creating that safe organisation where people know that if they hand you something precious, which is things about themselves, data about themselves that they might not share with just any people on a daily basis, that that's going to be held with safety and with the respect that it deserves, with care and to their benefit. That the organisation has this genuine desire to make the organisation a place where everyone can feel like they belong, and that they are part of the organisation. And until people disclose that information and are willingly able to trust the organisation to say, okay, I'm happy to share this with you now. I love what you just said, and you talk about maturity curve, so to speak. So this journey progress that you've been on already, so many organisations are behind that, and obviously there are organisations ahead, but in terms of knowing that it is possible that you can with time, over time, with lots of positive reinforcement, with the right senior leaders, acting in an inclusive way, sharing and being open, demonstrating those inclusive skills that we've spoken about, it's possible to get to a point where there isn't that cynicism in the organisation, that actually they're willing to share. I think what you’ve just shared is such a powerful story, knowing that such a big organisation, as you said, one of the FTSE 100 companies like Centrica can get there.
Devi Virdi 32:23
Thank you for giving me the opportunity. I think it comes back to the place of getting colleagues, it's important to be honest, it comes back to the piece about being transparent. We know that we haven't asked every single question, you know we’ve provided, we've given colleagues an opportunity to come back, give feedback as well. So, I think it's really open, it's about co-creating with colleagues, and this is the first time we're relaunching this, we last did this back in 2020 in fact. So, you know we've taken a gap of a year for data collection, we've relooked at our campaign, and actually we're a bit now ahead as a business because of the market, because what's happened in the world as well. If I think about diversity and inclusion conversations, it's in politics, it's in the classroom, it's in your home environment, everybody's talking about it. And actually, it is, and it should be part and parcel of just our day to day, it's a BAU. And so for me, this is where that piece comes in is, once you start asking for it, it shouldn't be a one stop shop, that you just open up yourself an ID campaign and you go, we're going to do this, tadaa, you know, show and tell once a year.
You should allow your business units to do it when they want, give that flexibility to them, know where your gaps are, so once you have your data insights, you can then be even more targeted. That for me is that maturity piece, it is that next level, because it comes back to the place of, we want to be able to provide the right support to our colleagues, and that investment, that is so important. So that if we know how many colleagues is in our organisation Nadia, that have a hearing impairment, that are engineers, we know what level of support we can provide them so that when they're going into customers’ homes, we know that actually they're able to do their jobs to the best of their ability. That is what matters and that is where this all comes in. If you talk about my purpose, that's what gets me up, that's about my own drive, right? I think it's really important we get this right. But you're right, it takes a while as a business to get to the point where colleagues feel safe that their data is kept confidential, it's under lock and key, right? They understand that because look, we've told them for so long to keep it close to their hearts, to keep it close to their chest. It does definitely take time.
Nadia Nagamootoo 34:41
We're just coming towards the end of our conversation and I’ve got so many more questions to ask you. But I would love to hear before we finish, if we were to fast forward 20 years down the line, what's the future of our field, diversity, equity and inclusion?
Devi Virdi 35:00
If I fast forward to 20 years, I think in the world of DEI, I definitely believe that actually technology is going to be a big factor for the future. I predict, because we're talking 20 years, I predict that actually we have environments that are truly inclusive, and actually technology will help create that inclusion by actually removing that human error from biases, from things like interviews Nadia, from recruitment, from assessments, from performance, from promotion, because actually all that is possible, and if not even sooner, for sure. However, there is what I would add, the caveat to that is that the technology is only as good as the people who design it. If you haven't built diversity into your company, or into that design, into the team that are working on it, frankly, you'll end up with products and solutions that are biased. It's as simple as that.
Nadia Nagamootoo 35:55
Which is where we're at right now with biases. And I mean, we could do this as a whole other podcast on the bias within the design of our society, and every product that we have, so.
Devi Virdi 36:07
If I think about 2022, so even by 2035, God, I can't believe I just said that we should really have a workplace where we're not, let's be honest, we're not talking about this anymore, really, we shouldn't be talking about this anymore. But that comes with the right steps and leadership. And actually, you won't need people like me anymore, that is actually my reality, right? These roles merge into the role of every single leader. When you talk about a job description, that should be parcel of that job description, right? That's actually where I'd like to see us end up and where I guess my hope is, because I've got young kids, and we read a lot of Doctor Zeus, I'll leave it with one of Doctor Zeus’ famous quote, “It's not about what it is, it's about what it can become.”
Nadia Nagamootoo 36:57
I love that. Thank you so much Devi, I've really enjoyed our conversation. You've taken us through the skills and qualities of an inclusive leader, we've spoken about some of the incredible things that Centrica has put in place, the shadow board, and the passion that you speak with comes through the energy that you put in. And I'm just delighted to have had you on the show. So, thank you so much for your time. If people wanted to get in touch, are you on social channels? How can they get hold of you?
Devi Virdi 37:28
Yeah, sure. Nadia, thanks again for the opportunity, it’s really great to just come and be able to share a bit about what we do at Centrica. I've absolutely loved the last 45 minutes and we could have carried on talking. But yes, anybody who wishes to connect, I'm on LinkedIn so feel free to please reach out.
Nadia Nagamootoo 37:45
Brilliant. Well, the link to everything that Devi and I spoke about today is going to be available on the usual show notes page, which is avenirconsultingservices.com, under podcasts, Devi, I loved speaking to you. You're fabulous, you're wonderful. I'm so privileged to have you on the show. Thank you so much.
Devi Virdi 38:04
Take care Nadia, bye.
Nadia Nagamootoo 38:07
That concludes episode 25 of the Why Care Podcast. And there you have it, it's not about what is, it's about what can become. Such an appropriate quote to end on, and a clear vision from Devi on the future of DEI, which we all should be aspiring towards. This episode really resonated with me on so many levels, and I'd love to know what you found most valuable and powerful. You can find me on LinkedIn and Twitter with the handle @NadiaNagamootoo. As always, I really appreciate your support of this podcast through leaving a review on whatever platform you're listening, and spreading the word by sharing it with your friends and family. Huge thanks to Mauro Kenji, for editing this podcast, and Jon Rice for supporting with the show notes and getting it out there on social media.
