Why Care? 44. Midlife Reinvention with Rosie Nixon
“ Kindness is inclusion, isn't it? Kindness is the foundation of inclusion, understanding, and caring no matter what. I'm with you, as Council culture, I just can't bear it - it is the epitome of unkindness. Because as we all know, if somebody is unkind to you, and I say this often to my kids about bullies, or people that they might mention at school - I say, perhaps nobody is being kind to them, perhaps they don't know what it's like to be a friend. Perhaps they don't understand what kind behavior is. How could you model that for them so that they could learn, because we are often a victim of our own experiences, and we don't know what's going on at home for that person. It's probably having an impact on their behavior. So the book is really aimed at young and old people, and that's why kids love it and dip into it all the time. I really wanted to create a book for everybody.
In this episode of Why Care?, host Nadia Nagamootoo welcomes Rosie Nixon, former Editor-in-Chief of HELLO! Magazine and author of three novels - The Stylist, Amber Green Takes Manhattan and Just Between Friends - plus the Be Kind book, all about showing different types of kindness.
Rosie shares her journey from the glamorous world of magazines to facing burnout and ultimately finding a new path focused on empowering midlife women. They discuss her innovative Reinvention Retreats, the importance of taking a pause, and how to redefine success in midlife. Rosie also opens up about the pressures of maintaining a public persona and the pivotal moment that led her to prioritise her wellbeing and personal fulfilment.
Highlights:
Rosie's Journey: From her career as Editor-in-Chief at HELLO! Magazine to facing burnout and reinventing herself, Rosie Nixon shares her path and the experiences that shaped her approach to life and work.
Empathy and Integrity in Leadership: Discover how Rosie emphasises the importance of empathy and integrity in leadership, highlighting the need to align actions with values and prioritise wellbeing.
The Moment of Realisation: Rosie recounts the pivotal moment at the Corinthia Hotel that led her to recognize the need for change and prioritise her mental and physical health.
Reinvent Like a PRO: Learn about Rosie's innovative Reinvention Retreats designed for midlife women, featuring a structured approach to Pausing, Reflecting, and Organising their lives for personal and professional fulfilment.
Kindness as a Foundation: Explore the themes from Rosie's book, Be Kind, emphasising the importance of kindness to oneself and others, and how it plays a crucial role in diversity, equity, and inclusion work.
Supporting Midlife Women: Rosie discusses the unique challenges faced by midlife women and the need for organisations to offer support and flexible opportunities for reinvention to retain top talent.
Key Takeaways
Rosie Nixon’s journey emphasises the importance of recognizing and addressing burnout, and the power of reinvention in midlife.
Her Reinvention Retreats provide a structured approach for midlife women to pause, reflect, and organise their lives for personal and professional fulfilment.
Emphasises the importance of empathy, self-kindness, and redefining success on one’s own terms.
Navigating career pivots and promoting wellbeing requires intentional action and supportive environments.
Leaders and organisations must support employees through flexible and practical approaches to wellbeing and personal development.
The significance of creating inclusive cultures where diverse backgrounds and experiences are valued and celebrated.
Guest Bio
Rosie Nixon is a celebrated author and former Editor in Chief of HELLO! Magazine, where she spent 16 years leading the iconic publication. With a career spanning over two decades in the media industry, Rosie now has a portfolio career, with a particular focus on empowering midlife women through her new Reinvention Retreats. She is also the author of Be Kind, a book that explores the multifaceted nature of kindness towards oneself, others, and the environment.
Links
Rosie Nixon’s Reinvention Retreats: https://www.rosienixon.co.uk/reinvention-retreats
Purchase “Be Kind”
Avenir Consulting: https://linktr.ee/avenirconsultingservices
Transcript
Rosie Nixon 00:00
I had been away from my family for a couple of nights, and I woke up the next morning, underslept as usual, my phone pretty much exploding with notifications. Most of them good, you know. Actually, I could have woken up with a real sense of achievement and happiness from what we had created yesterday, but there was no time to take any of that in because I was straight on to the next thing. And I think stress turns into chronic stress when we never give ourselves a bit of breathing space at the beginning of a particularly hectic cycle of work. And we're all going to go through busy times, but it's what you do to kind of recalibrate after those that can be really important to our physical health. So I woke up that morning, couldn't really take in everything on my phone, and was just conscious that I was going to be in a conference I had with the team every morning to discuss that week's issue of the magazine that'd be going to press in a couple of days, wasn't on top of the news agenda.
There were many emails with copy that I hadn't managed to read yet because I've been so busy hosting this event. And I just had an overwhelming urge to throw my phone out the window onto Whitehall outside, never to be seen again, which was a really physical reaction. And then I just sort of collapsed, sobbing on the bed. And just the words that were just going through my head, I couldn't get out of my head, were just, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. You know, I'm done.
Nadia Nagamootoo 01:34
Hi, my name is Nadia Nagamootoo, business psychologist, coach, speaker and founder of Avenir Consulting, which creates organisational growth and success via inclusion and diversity. We've been discussing the benefits that diversity brings to companies' bottom line performance for decades with more and more evidence. But there are so many questions organisations still have about how to achieve it. How do you create a culture where people feel valued for their uniqueness and the qualities they bring? I believe it's crucial to the future success and sustainability of every organisation that they find the answer to this question, to make sure that each employee is not only supported but also appreciated. With this podcast, I aim to get some of the key challenges to creating inclusive workplaces out in the open and start uncovering the solutions to embracing a culture that cares for everyone. I'm going to be having conversations with some of the most inspiring people in different countries and across industries who are pushing the boundaries on inclusion and diversity in the workplace, from topics such as parenting in the workplace, ethnicity, age, gender, mental health, and all things inclusion. I want to create a movement to change society through sharing life experiences and creating more empathy and connection. Why Care? I believe that once we have organisations and societies that accept and value everyone for who they are, we become healthier, happier, and better in our roles both inside and outside work. Hello and welcome to episode 44 of Why Care. My name is Nadia Nagamootoo and I am your host.
My guest in this episode is someone who I hugely admire for her drive, deep sense of purpose, down-to-earth style, and for being a catalyst for change. Rosie Nixon is an author, broadcaster, and coach. After a long career in women's magazines including Grazia, Glamour, and Red, she spent 16 years at Hello! Magazine as an award-winning editor and editor-in-chief. She now has a portfolio career with a particular passion for improving the lives of midlife women. She is a proud ambassador for the women's health charity Wellbeing of Women and the anti-FGM charity Educate Not Mutilate. In this episode, Rosie shares her story of a couple of years ago when she came close to burnout whilst living the glamorous yet relentless lifestyle as editor-in-chief at Hello! We discuss the point that many women reach at midlife, where they have worked so hard to achieve their career successes, but with various perimenopausal and menopausal symptoms, they find it tough to maintain the pace but challenging to take back control of what they both need and want. She shares her latest project, Rosie's Reinvention Retreats, which gives midlife women space to pause, reflect and organise their lives.
We also discuss why she wrote her book Be Kind during lockdown and the importance of remembering kindness and self-compassion in a world that continues to be brutally divisive. I have no doubt you will take away some gems from this episode. Enjoy.
Rosie Nixon, a huge welcome to Why Care. I'm so excited to speak to you today. Thank you for joining me.
Rosie Nixon 04:53
Oh, you are very welcome. I'm so glad that we made it happen.
Nadia Nagamootoo 04:55
We did. And what an amazing way to have met at Dame Kelly Holmes's Athena Effect event in March. And then you were just so incredible on stage, how you told your story and your vulnerability and humility that you showed at that event that I was like, this woman is incredible. I need to get her on my show. And I just can't believe you said yes. So thank you.
Rosie Nixon 05:20
Well, likewise, I felt exactly the same listening to you speak. So I'm really glad that you reached out.
Nadia Nagamootoo 05:27
Oh, well, listen, if there are people out there who don't know you, I mean, you have had an incredible career and probably you have, I'm sure, a little black book of contacts that most would be very envious of that you have quite in your own right developed over the years. So I'd really love just to hear some of the highlights, you starting out in your career, and how you became the Editor-in-Chief at Hello! Magazine.
Rosie Nixon 05:53
Oh, thanks, Nadia. And yeah, I feel really fortunate to have had a career that I've absolutely loved over the last sort of 23, 24 years in the media. Been in women's glossy magazines for most of my career. Started off actually in book publishing briefly, where I literally went from unpaid work experience, doing anything, making myself known to the book editors, making the tea and standing by the fax machine, as it was at the time, up to being an editor of children's book. And then I made my segue into magazines. And my first job in magazines, which often amuses people, was as editor of Barbie magazine, where it was just me and a designer working on this fortnightly title for young impressionable girls.
And I really started to understand the responsibility of an editor and what you're putting into the hands of a very impressionable audience and the power that goes with that, but also the huge responsibility. But I did every sort of part of the editorial process there from writing the stories and word searches about Barbie and Ken, to getting all the material approved by Mattel, who owned the license, and then sending it off to press. So it was a baptism of fire. And then I would say I've slowly sort of gone up in age myself and in age of the audiences I've been talking to through the pages of various magazines, from New Woman magazine, which you might remember, Look magazine. I then went across to Red magazine at a time when that was really breaking barriers with the digital world as well.
They had Red Direct, so they were already operating as a multi-platform media brand. And then I went across to Glamour magazine, to Grazia, and then to Hello, which has been my home for 16 years. So a long stint there.
Nadia Nagamootoo 07:46
What a list of titles. That's phenomenal. And so your role then at Hello magazine, can you just describe a little bit about what you were doing as editor-in-chief?
Rosie Nixon 07:57
Yeah, well, as editor-in-chief, which I was for the last about seven years, I think I was there before that I was editor of the title. Obviously, in that time, Hello has grown enormously like lots of other media brands into a multi-platform media empire that's available to its audience 24-7 across a whole range of platforms. The role as an editor has obviously expanded within that. And it was less about the day-to-day editing of the magazine, more about almost being a spokesperson for the brand, hosting lots of different offerings, including podcasts, events, working with commercial partners, as well as managing teams on the editorial side. So the role got bigger and bigger, which was fantastic. And I loved it for years and years. But then I did hit a point in my career in my late 40s, which I'm sure many women relate to, a feeling of overwhelm, anxiety, perhaps perimenopause symptoms creeping in. And I really felt that actually I needed to make a change. I needed to set myself up in my life in a different way for the next chapter of life, for my midlife.
Nadia Nagamootoo 09:10
From the outside, it would have looked, I'm sure, like, gosh, this woman's got it all, right? The glamour that comes with all those events and meeting the celebrities and going to the incredible weddings that people probably find out about them and get an inside look through magazines like Hello. And there you were live at those sorts of events. So I'm sure there were lots of people looking at your life with rose tinted glasses. And there was a moment though, that really stays with you, which is what you shared actually at the Athena Effect event in March. And that close to burnout feeling when you sort of woke up and maybe you could share a little bit about what happened in that moment.
Rosie Nixon 09:54
Yeah, sure. And I think probably I had been kind of behaving like a swan in some aspects of life. And if you'd followed me on social media at the time, you would have probably thought I was nailing all aspects of life and looking glamorous and trying to keep fit and everything else along with it. But the reality was actually very different. I was kind of peddling like crazy underneath the water, trying to keep all the balls in the air. And lots of them we cannot drop and the responsibilities that we have in lots of different areas of our lives, including to our jobs.
And my job had become more than a Monday to Friday job. It was a 24 seven. I think we do live in this always on world, whether you work in the media or not, we are slaves to our phones and the constant notifications and emails.
And there's a real urgency it feels. Although sometimes we have to question where that urgency comes from. Is it pressure we're putting on ourselves or is it external? But for me, it did all come to a head. And as you say, we were sat in the Corinthia Hotel at Kelly's event, and that was impactful for me because I was in the Corinthia Hotel a year and a half previously when I had my moment and I had just hosted a big event for Hello! It was our Inspiration Awards, an annual event I hosted and generally sort of arranged in-house with the team where we celebrated lots of amazing women who've done incredible things throughout society. And I had been away from my family for a couple of nights and I woke up the next morning, underslept as usual, my phone pretty much exploding with notifications. Most of them good. Actually, I should have woken up with a real sense of achievement and happiness from what we had created yesterday. But there was no time to take any of that in because I was straight on to the next thing. And I think stress turns into chronic stress when we never give ourselves a bit of breathing space at the beginning of a particularly hectic cycle of work. And we're all going to go through busy times, but it's what you do to kind of recalibrate after those that can be really important to our physical health.
So I woke up that morning, couldn't really take in everything on my phone, was just conscious that I was going to be in a conference I had with the team every morning to discuss that week's issue of the magazine that'd be going to press in a couple of days, wasn't on top of the news agenda. There were many emails with copy that I hadn't managed to read yet because I've been so busy hosting this event. And I just had an overwhelming urge to throw my phone out the window onto White Hall outside, never to be seen again, which was a really physical reaction. And then I just sort of collapsed, sobbing on the bed. And just the words that were just going through my head, I couldn't get out of my head, were just, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I'm done. And I look at it now, actually, as not a breakdown, but actually a breakthrough because I was very lucky. My physical symptoms were easy to get on top of. I was exhausted. I needed some time out. I hadn't tipped into full burnout, which lots of people suffer, and it can be really paralysing for months or they may leave the workforce, potentially at the top of their game. But for me, it was, I needed to take a bit of time out, was signed off by a doctor actually for psychological exhaustion, we called it in the end, which was kind of just one stop before, but full burnout. And I needed to recalibrate and think, right, now at this age in my life, at this stage of my career, I'm done with the striving in that way. I physically can't do it anymore.
And actually, the science is there to show that men and women reach a point around the late forties where we physically cannot strive at that pace anymore. And it's going to be unfulfilling if we try to, we're going to head to burnout if we try to, we won't achieve the same level of success, but we can pivot our careers and be super successful, perhaps more so in a completely different way for the next chapter and take all of that learnt experience and wisdom with us, but reinvent for a happier, more fulfilling, healthier next chapter. So when I'd had that time out, I kind of then started to really address these deep feelings that I'd had at least for a couple of years previously of running on empty, not being fulfilled in the same way by my work, still being grateful for the experiences that I'd had and all of this, I say with a pinch of salt as well, because I know there are lots of people struggling with really life-changing challenges going on. And so this felt like, right, I can deal with this it's okay, the world's not falling apart.
I just need to change my career and I need to get on top of what's happening hormonally and I need to feel myself again, but that takes work. And so the last couple of years have been about doing that work and now bringing everything that I've learnt to lots of other midlife women who might be feeling the same.
Nadia Nagamootoo 15:14
And we're definitely going to talk about that shortly because I really want to explore what it is that you're offering for midlife women. You use the word recalibration. Can you just describe a little bit about what that involved? What have you been doing over the last couple of years that you would class as recalibration?
Rosie Nixon 15:34
Well, I think as I mentioned previously as well, that we are all going to go through busy cycles, but the stress cycle can tip over into something more, which can really begin to affect you physically and mentally if we never give ourselves a chance just to pause. You know, I think really that day after that event, you know, looking back and thinking how I could have done things differently, I should have left my diary free, knowing that all the adrenaline from the build up to that event and the excitement of doing it and the late nights were going to take a toll on me because we're not super human. And that when the adrenaline leaves your body, obviously you then feel it and it's exhausting and you need to give yourself that chance to pause or to recalibrate just to get back onto a bit more of an even keel, but also to take it in, to feel proud of yourself, to celebrate this achievement and just to take a moment to acknowledge what we've done. But we do live in, for many of us, a world that just keeps moving at a hundred miles an hour and it's very difficult to jump off that conveyor belt.
Nadia Nagamootoo 16:45
And I feel quite emotional hearing you speaking about that because it resonates so much with me. I've always wanted more, but it's not like I'm greedy for more, but simply I'm very much prove that you can Nadia. And I don't know whether it's something from my upbringing where I grew up in a low socioeconomic background and I was one of the very, very few ethnic minority girls in the school. And so there was always this element of just proving it. Yes, I had this kind of prove it. And now as an adult, I know it's still there.
And there's this feeling of, if I don't continue, then I might fall off. And then what will happen? I need to maintain the momentum and it has to be the momentum in a particular direction, which is for greater success. Success being that I'm better known, that I have more thought leadership out in the world, obviously with the podcast show and the book, and it's kind of just this continuous pushing and the algorithms don't help with the social media because if you don't post for a while, then it doesn't favor you as much.
Rosie Nixon 17:51
You're right. I get that. Although I realised to my detriment if I didn't listen, and I think really it was a few things. I think for lots of midlife women, it can actually be a melting pot of a number of things. There was the physical exhaustion, but there was also the fact that there had been this little voice in my head thinking, I don't know if I want to do this job anymore, but I feel so defined by it. And it's such a part of my identity now. I just, I don't know how to get out of it, feeling really trapped by that. And also as a woman and a mother, feeling like I can't afford to drop any of these balls. I've reached this pinnacle in my career and I deserve to be here. And I'm, you know, similar to how you feel at times, you know, I'm not going to sort of waste that.
Nadia Nagamootoo 18:43
No. Yeah, it does. That's exactly it. It's like, I don't want to let this go now because I've worked so hard to achieve it.
Rosie Nixon 18:52
But also it's leaning in. So yeah, now I'm so grateful to that period of my career. I only ever wanted to look back with gratitude for it, you know, not reach a point where I hated it, you know, and was forced to leave it. Really, I look back on that with gratitude, but I also understand that I have evolved as a person and my version of success now is defined by me and only me and not external sources. And that's really hard to do at times, but I think often we do all reach a point, perhaps it's for physical reasons, that we do have to really look at what our version of success means. And it's different to what it was even 10 years ago, let alone at the beginning of my career.
And that's okay, because we're all evolving. Our values change, our strengths evolve. We want different things from our life. So for me, it was about leaning into that actually, not being afraid of it or thinking I'm going to lose things, but what can I gain by leaning into this? How is this going to make my life even fuller and richer and more fulfilling? So I don't feel like I've lost anything, but I choose to focus on what I've gained.
Nadia Nagamootoo 20:07
Yeah. And as you're talking, I'm hearing this kind of potential pattern that may be more prevalent with women or midlife women, where almost we're stuck in the past, the story of our past, what made us who we were, what makes us successful, what defines who we are. And because that was previously what defined who we were, then we kind of said, we need to maintain that. So what is it, that reframing, the mindset shift that you're saying, if I let that go, that doesn't mean that I can't be happy that that happened, but I need something different now.
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If we were to dissect kind of your story and understand what's the common theme for midlife women, what are you hearing? Because you speak to a lot of women and you get their story. So what is the theme? What's the gap in support as well for this group?
Rosie Nixon 22:07
Ever since I have decided to be brave enough to share my story, because this is the other thing about midlife, there's a certain fire there as well and a certain energy around, well, actually, I'm not going to shy away from this. And I felt it's really important that I stop pretending that everything is fine because that doesn't do any woman a service. In fact, it does us all a great disservice because it sets unrealistic standards. And I think social media can be really our enemy in some cases because it does make us feel as though we're constantly judged or we're measuring our success and perceived success against other people all of the time. So I decided to open up about my journey because it felt the authentic thing to do. But when I was ready to do that, and I couldn't have done a talk like I did at Kelly's event at the Corinthia a year previously because it was too close and it was too emotional for me and I would have been in tears on that stage, I have absolutely no doubt. But I've worked through what happened to me and I have got to grips with what was going on in my head and the needs and the values that I have now as a midlife woman and how I want to define my success. And for me, it was coaching really helped me through that and training to be a coach. And I have found that other midlife women have opened up to me in a very similar way that my story is by no means isolated.In fact, it's really common. I felt there wasn't a place for me to turn to, to kind of share all of that in a trusted, supported environment. I mean, I actually found coaching then in the end, the place that really called to me. I loved being coached in the past, had some one-to-one coaching, and I love everything about the vocabulary of coaching. I guess, you know, I am a words person and a storyteller at heart and I love the positivity of it. It's all about fostering a growth mindset. It's all about what are we going to do? What are the practical steps we're going to take to get to where we want to be? And that very much calls to me.
Some people look to other areas in times of challenge, but I felt like, wouldn't it be great to bring all the self-awareness that I've been able to evoke through coaching to lots more midlife women on a bigger scale? Because it was transformative to me and it helped me plan my next chapter, which honestly, no day feels like work now. I feel like I'm just living my passion. It's fantastic. And I do believe we all have that opportunity, but it takes work to unlock what that is and to get there. And sometimes we need experts to guide us through that.
Nadia Nagamootoo 24:53
And so that very nicely is a segue to your reinvention retreat. So can you tell us a little bit more about what was the idea behind this? What's the premise of reinvention retreats? Who's it for? What will they get? Expand a little.
Rosie Nixon 25:09
The idea was to create a really flexible, practical retreat format for midlife women to come and take a pause from the everyday. Because the pause I think has to come first. The fact that we're kind of continually onto the next thing doesn't ever give us the chance to do some deeper thinking around our own personal development. And I've been on lots of retreats before, many of which were press trips during my time on various magazines. I used to oversee the travel section at Glamour magazine for a while, which was a very great job to have.
I've experienced lots of different formats of retreats and yet none of them was a place that I felt I could turn to when I began to feel on the brink of burning out. Because it wasn't practical or affordable to go off for five to seven days when I've got a family at home and a job. And I didn't really want my employer necessarily to be fully aware of what I was thinking at that time before I'd got really the thinking in proper organized shape in my head.
And I bought all the books about creating a healthier life, The Burnout Bible, I can see another book called Burnout. I found a lot of the language of those quite masculine and quite downbeat. And I thought, what if there was a way of repositioning this to look at it as a reinvention moment of something that's really positive and where you could go for a day or two if you wanted it to be fully flexible to get a chance to just take a pause and put the focus on your own well-being and personal development and be guided through workshops by the best experts in the business, you know, top coaches that are going to help you navigate this time and in a room full of other midlife women who are all there for exactly the same reasons.
And as we all know, when lots of women get together, great things happen and networking takes place and you never know who you might meet or be sat with that might help shape your next chapter too because I think we can learn so much from hearing each other's stories. So I have created the flexible retreat in a day format that I was looking for when I was feeling like this to help lots more women through what I can see is a really tough time and there's a big demand for it.
Nadia Nagamootoo 27:36
And you talk about reinvent like a pro. What does that mean? So if I were to attend and come, what is it that I get that means that I can reinvent like a pro? What do I learn?
Rosie Nixon 27:47
Yeah, well, I came up with that concept through my coaching training and then subsequent work that I do with private clients. I wanted a structure for the retreat that could be the same whatever topic of reinvention we're discussing. And I'm looking at lots of different areas of reinvention and even thinking about a style reinvention day because that's another sort of area that women often think, I don't know what my style is now. I don't know what to wear in midlife. So the reinvent like a pro concept, the pro stands for pause, reflect and organise. So each retreat day will be divided into three sections.
There'll be the pause section, which is the fact that we're there on the retreat, giving ourselves this moment, the time to reflect on where we are and we want to be, perhaps set out some goals. We'll also have some rapid tapping during the pause section from Poppy Delbridge, who's amazing, just to help put ourselves in a different kind of mindset and go a bit deeper, but not too deep. On these retreats, I don't expect people are going to be likely to be in floods of tears for the whole day. We're not unlocking deep, but we're giving ourselves a chance to just stop and think about where we are and where we want to be. And then the reflect sessions will all be about understanding our values and our strengths and letting the experts guide us through workshops around those. And then the organised sessions would include financial planning.
I've got a brilliant independent financial planners expert because every reinvention journey has to be rooted in reality. And I'm not suggesting in an idealistic way that we all just quit the jobs that we don't like anymore or go off and do something because we need to be rooted in reality. And for many women, myself included, not fully understanding the financial picture was a blocker for many years. Imagine how I would ever launch my own company. It just felt far too scary. And I thought I'm a words person, not a numbers person.And I'd put myself in some kind of box with regards to that. And I'm now realising that probably held me back for a while. And there's no reason why I can't do that and understand. So, financial planning, I think, is really key. So important. So, I quit my job almost 10 years ago now. I know. I set up a near nine and a half. I'm going to be celebrating January 2025, a decade. You have to actually mark that as your big achievement and celebrate it. It's so important.
Nadia Nagamootoo 30:23
But I have to say, one of the things that people ask me, why did you decide to do it? What provoked it was that I'd come back from maternity, and I was a couple of grades lower than when I had left. But that wasn't actually the huge catalyst. The catalyst was that I was crying. I remember crying in bed with my husband kind of cuddling me. And I was like, I just need to go. I need to leave. I can't stay here two grades lower. And I sort of contemplated setting up Avenir, but working under other people's brands as associates. So, you know, just kind of to get some money in. And he was like, he's an accountant. So, he then supported me. And he was like, we've got this bank of savings. So, fine. It might take you three months to get set up. If it takes you six months, we're still okay. And I kind of needed him. Otherwise, I would have just carried on if I didn't have him.
That one person financially who knew and could tell me, do it, because we've got a buffer. And the buffer is this. And if you don't get any work by then, then you can search for another job. We'll still be okay.
Rosie Nixon 31:31
Totally. And that's so brilliant that you had him when we're able to make that plan together. And for many of us, yeah, it is a question of sitting down, almost like they're doing the workings out in the back of a fag packet workings out. You know, they don't even have to be on a neatly set up P&L or Excel sheet.
Nadia Nagamootoo 31:55
I mean, I'm married to an accountant. So, it was actually very nice.I couldn't have done it myself. No.
Rosie Nixon 31:58
And with the leaving of Hello, you know, with me too, I sat down with my husband, we figured out what if I had a retainer of X, but, you know, over X number of days, then I could afford to, we would have what we needed to cover everything in terms of the outgoings that we've got. And anything else would be a bonus. And we kind of built it from there, but my happiness would be up here and it suddenly then feels doable. So, I think the financial planning is really important and a key part of the organized sections that I have on the retreats, but we'd also look about personal brand and we'll look at how to present yourself online on the small business day, because that is a key component of the world that we live in. And so, we'll go, no question we'll be too silly as well on these retreats. You know, certainly I'm asking all the financial planners not to talk in acronyms or things that we're not going to understand.
It's going to be as basic as we need and having a fairly intimate environment, there'll be sort of around 30 women each day, means that you are able to ask the questions that you really want to have answered as a chance for a bit of one-to-one time with the experts as well. And hopefully this will foster some great communities that we can carry on then and support each other through these next chapters.
Nadia Nagamootoo 33:15
It's such a brilliant idea and vision that it almost begs the question why we haven't had this before. Like, do you know what I mean? It's just like, this is so needed. So, what is it that organizations, particularly business leaders, because I'm sure a lot of people think of midlife women, the first word that comes to mind is menopause. And we're slowly learning in the business world, we're slowly learning about menopause and educating leaders, educating line managers for them to understand the variation of how menopause might show up in women. But actually what you're saying, whilst obviously menopause, I understand is part of your re-invention retreat and you will be focusing one of the days on that, what I'm hearing is that organizations are missing something else when it comes to midlife women. What is it, if you were to give a clear message to organizations in terms of menopause, yes, and dot, dot, dot, what would that be? What should they be doing to support?
Rosie Nixon 34:18
I think it's the ability to be able to reinvent within your role. I mean, this is about retention in the workforce. This is about keeping the best talent within your business. But there needs to be some kind of roadmap for that. They need to know where it is that they could go and what support is there around wellbeing as well, and how to keep your work and life flow in a healthy place. Because we all know that healthy and happy employees increases business success. So I think giving your employees the chance to pause, perhaps booking a group of women within the community at work onto one of my retreat days, it's one day out of the office to put the focus on their wellbeing, to share stories amongst them, to improve their bond with each other, to deepen relationships. I mean, there are so many benefits doing that.
But I can also curate days specifically for corporates as well, because I'm seeing that there is a market there and I've been approached by a few to curate days specifically for their communities of midlife women, which I think is such a positive step. And also sharing information. This is kind of the school of life, really. Some of this stuff should be taught at school. And obviously, when we get to midlife, it was a long time since many of us have ever learned again, let alone really started to have a moment to really learn about ourselves and who we are now. I think that chance to pause is everything and will bring so many benefits across companies as well as to individuals.
Nadia Nagamootoo 36:00
Sure. And what I'm hearing in that is that we see it in the data and statistics in terms of where employees are leaving the organisation and even dropping out of the workforce completely. And midlife women, sort of women aged around their 40s to 50s, broadly, they're the ones who tend to just fall out. It's just hard to get them back because they lose their confidence. It might be around the time where actually things just get that little bit too much. They've got motherhood, they've got a career that they've put a lot of time and they haven't spent the time reframing or thinking about kind of what got me here might not get me there. And actually, organisations are really losing top talent, these incredible women because they're not focusing in the right place, not offering that support that you're talking about.
Rosie Nixon 36:50
That's right. And that's also shocking around sort of menopause where often those symptoms can be quite debilitating and really affect your ability to work from brain fog to anxiety, feelings of overwhelming sleep deprivation. And a recent report showed that one in 10 women in the UK quits their job due to perimenopause and menopause symptoms.
And extrapolated across the UK, that is hundreds of thousands of women. Coupled with the shocking stats around burnout, that we're becoming a burnout nation. I was looking at stats just recently, I did a post on LinkedIn today actually, which said that 88% of workers in the UK feel that they have been close to or in burnout at some point. 88%. That is absolutely huge. So, we have to do something to tackle these statistics. I think as a responsible employer, it is your responsibility to support your employees and just give them a moment. And this retreat is just one day, it's 24 hours. So, I think we all have that possibility to work into a working week.
Nadia Nagamootoo 38:06
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Now, I can't talk to you and not talk about your amazing book, Be Kind. Now, it's one of almost four books because you've got a new book that's coming out shortly. Genuinely, it sits on my kitchen island and people flip through and it's so digestible. It's so accessible and you can just open a page and read something which takes you all of kind of 20 seconds to, but actually you can carry it with you. The sentiment of those words around different ways you can be kind, not just in kindness to others, but kindness to yourself, kindness to the environment. Just tell me a little bit about why you decided to write this book and come out and curate it because there's lots of different people with their voices in this book as well.
Rosie Nixon 39:38
I think it really started to become the seed of an idea during the pandemic, which I think for a lot of people was the first time that we thought of kindness on a sort of big scale because of the fact that we were all staying at home as this huge act of kindness towards our communities and to protect ourselves and our loved ones and everybody else around us and to support the NHS. But also the first time that I thought on a deeper level about kindness towards myself because I realized that in the face of that really scary prospect, at one point, it really felt as though life was never going to be the same again. We had to really dig deep and show some compassion to ourselves in order to get through it and to be able to support the children in our homes and the ones that we loved and the wider community.
So I was really tapping into lots of words about kindness that I was seeing online and on social media and kindness had always been something that underpinned our ethos at Hello as well. So I'd done a lot of thinking around kindness in relation to my job and then I thought, wouldn't it be nice if all of these nuggets that I'm picking out and reposting and having conversations about with various people, wouldn't it be nice to pull all of that together and just put it in one book that would last forever and have it all there in one place? And it wasn't meant to be a big celebrity book initially, but it sort of turned out like that because I asked a few people if they'd like to contribute to it and everybody said yes and it just started snowballing. So there's lots of quotes from people in the public eye and there as well as experts in their fields talking about all aspects of what it means to be kind and what kindness means to them and how we can show kindness to ourselves and to others in the environment.
Nadia Nagamootoo 41:34
For someone working in the diversity, equity and inclusion space, there is something around kindness to self where we realise that maybe we've said something not quite the way that it was intended and it might have hurt someone. Being kind to ourselves and not getting it right all the time and it's okay to make a mistake. And kindness to others when they might have misstepped or they haven't quite said it right and know that people have some good intentions.
I think this whole cancel culture is just the complete opposite of-
Rosie Nixon 42:20
It's the epitome of unkindness.
Nadia Nagamootoo 42:21
You know, and it's so brutal and it's just unnecessary. I mean, we're already so self-critical, right? And then to have this other kind of critical eye from the masses, it's just so unkind. And so it really resonated with me in reading your book, particularly working day in, day out in the diversity, equity, and inclusion space because there's such a lack of Yeah, you are so right.
Rosie Nixon 42:34
And kindness is inclusion, isn't it? Kindness is the foundation of inclusion and understanding and caring no matter what. And I'm with you, like cancel culture, I just can't bear and it is the epitome of unkindness. Because as we all know, if somebody is unkind to you, and I say this often to my kids about bullies or people that they might mention, perhaps nobody's been kind to them. Perhaps they don't know what it's like to be a friend. Perhaps they don't understand what kind behavior is.
How could you model that for them so that they could learn? Because we are often a victim of our own experiences and we don't know what's going on at home for that person. And that is probably having an impact on their behavior.So yeah, the book is really aimed at young and old. My kids love it and dip into it all the time. And I really wanted to create a book for everybody.Yeah.
Nadia Nagamootoo 43:33
I love it. We're coming rapidly towards the end of our conversation. And I'm asking all of my guests having spoken about your book to actually just explore a little bit about concepts in my book, which is, as you know, called Beyond Discomfort. And it's all about the emotion that diversity, equity and inclusion work evokes and how it can limit leaders in engaging, in being kind, in being inclusive. Okay. So I'm curious as to maybe you have a personal story you can share that highlights your own discomfort, maybe something that happened to you where you weren't sure how to navigate something diversity, equity and inclusion related, or maybe you've observed something in others that demonstrated some discomfort that they had to work through.
Rosie Nixon 44:20
Well, I think it's a brilliant book, Nadia. And it's so great that you are opening up the conversation around this because it is very uncomfortable for so many people and often for leaders. And as we know that the culture of a company does generally come from the top. And it's really important that people in leadership get more comfortable with having uncomfortable conversations. You know, when you mentioned this question to me, one moment that stood out for me was actually around sort of feeling like an outsider when I was actually offered a job at Condé Nast years ago, when I went to Glamour magazine, and I had already been offered the job by the editor and it was all agreed. But as part of joining that organisation, there was an interview that needed to take place with HR.
So I went along to that interview, and the person isn't there anymore, I won't name them anyway. But the first question I was asked in that interview was what school I went to and what brand of clothing I was wearing. And I immediately felt really uncomfortable by this question.
I mean, I went to a big comprehensive school in North London, and my father was actually head of another comprehensive school in North London, working class all the way, sort of strived throughout his life to reach the position that he did, a believer, socialist, big believer in comprehensive education. I was wearing Zara clothes. And I instantly felt that one, I'm creating the wrong impression here. You know, I got the impression that I should be saying I went to a public school or some boarding school. And I'm from the wrong class here. And I'm not wearing the right clothes, because they're not from Ralph Lauren or anywhere on Bond Street.
Do I fit in here? You know, I felt really uncomfortable and really awkward, but then something inside of me also was lit in that moment as well.
And I think my belief that I was going to work on a publication like Glamour, that was to appeal to all young women in the UK. How can you possibly create a publication when you've got one type of person there? Our society, the richness and the beauty of journalism and our society and what we can create for other generations has to come from a place of diversity. And I think actually, in that moment, it gave me even more fire, you know, to be able to stand up for that kind of richness of diversity, and for a celebration of multiculturalism and a celebration of all kinds of classes and backgrounds, because that's what makes journalism brilliant.
So perhaps the HR director in that moment wasn't expecting the sort of speech that I came out with when I was asked that question. And I genuinely thought I'm not going to get the job. I've just totally ruined it, because I am not what they want. But it really set a fire within me. And I've tried to carry that through, throughout my working life, because I remember what it felt like. And I'm not claiming it's safe to feel some kind of exclusion based around diversity or how difficult it can be to make your name in various industries if you don't feel that you're from a certain ethnic background. It's really hard. And I know you have experience of that. But I think as leaders, we have to be the ones opening that door and championing and celebrating diversity.
Otherwise, we're never going to create an equitable society for all. And we're not going to be able to create other sort of images of diverse backgrounds that other children like me, as I was then, or young people starting to find their way in the working world can look to for inspiration. I think it's really important. So that's my little contribution. And I did get the job. And I'm really glad that I did. So perhaps there was something good in that, actually. But it takes guts to stand up for that. And we're not all equipped to do that. And it is hard if you're really important, Nancy, that you're opening up these conversations so that they are more in the mainstream and so that leaders and everybody takes note.
Nadia Nagamootoo 48:59
Well, Rosie, what a way to end. I have to say I absolutely feel inspired and absolutely adore your fire. Thank you for bringing it to the show.Thank you for doing everything that you're doing in the space of supporting midlife women and beyond. I know you do so much more. We haven't had time to talk about everything else that you do as well. But thank you for joining me. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've loved our conversation.
Rosie Nixon 49:24
Thanks so much, Nadia.
Nadia Nagamootoo 49:26
That concludes episode 44 of Why Care? Rosie is such an inspirational figure, a strong and purpose-driven person, who has a deep sense of self and a commitment to make the world a happier and healthier place.It's so empowering listening to her story and inspiring to know so many midlife women who gain so much from her work. Do let Rosie and I know what you thought of today's show. You can find me on LinkedIn and Insta with the handle at Nadia Nagamootoo.
As always, I really appreciate your support of this podcast through leaving a review on whatever platform you're listening and spreading the word by sharing it with your friends and family. Huge thanks to Mauro at Kenji Productions for editing this podcast and to Jenny Lynton for getting it out there on social media.
